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King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

innsertnamehere said:
honestly after biking the King pilot, I prefer richmond / adelaide. Wide bike lanes, and you don't have to constantly stop to let passengers onto streetcars. Also better signal timing. I rode from Victoria to Bathurst this morning hitting only a single stoplight at Portland.
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You sound surprised. King allows bikes but is really not bike-friendly as it has no bike lanes and has streetcar tracks. Cyclists really should continue to use Adelaide/Richmond.
 
I think any challenges so far reflect pre-existing limitations on TTC rolling stock (i.e. $$$ and Bombardier's production problems) and a lack of prior attention to sidewalks, etc. But it's a start. Hopefully this will be but the first battle in the longer War on the Car.

tiffer24 said:
After only two weeks?

Two weeks into the King St. transit pilot, some businesses on the main Entertainment District artery say they are starting to feel a strain from the lack of private vehicle traffic on the road between Bathurst and Jarvis.

“The whole neighbourhood has suffocated,” said Laleh Larijani of the bakery Forno Cultura. “We can have transit solutions that don’t impact businesses so much.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...-taking-toll-say-king-st-business-owners.html
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I can't imagine how "suffocated" it is. I have always avoided driving on King, apart from perhaps the odd weekend when I've tried getting a spot near MEC. But most of the time it suffices to take the streetcar or - far more frequently - walk. I've been to Forno Cultura several times in fact and have only ever walked there. Perhaps I'm the exception, but just how many people are driving to indie hipster "Italian" bakeries on King West?

With respect to transit/pedestrian malls not working well in "cold" climates, I was in Sweden recently where they seem to thrive in places like Stockholm and Gothenburg. Lots of people walking around outside without dying due to lack of A/C or ambient heating. Of course, Gothenburg has Vancouver-style rain much of the time but that doesn't stop anyone. Unfortunately for a city whose ideal model of the "mall" amounts either to Yorkdale or the Eaton Centre, we don't always realize how good it can get.

Sparks Street has never taken off because for decades no one at all lived in downtown Ottawa. Remarkably, people seem to enjoy walking around the Byward Market year round - outside, no less.
 
JGHali said:
I think any challenges so far reflect pre-existing limitations on TTC rolling stock (i.e. $$$ and Bombardier's production problems) and a lack of prior attention to sidewalks, etc. But it's a start. Hopefully this will be but the first battle in the longer War on the Car.



I can't imagine how "suffocated" it is. I have always avoided driving on King, apart from perhaps the odd weekend when I've tried getting a spot near MEC. But most of the time it suffices to talk the streetcar or - far more frequently - walk. I've been to Forno Cultura several times in fact and have only ever walked there. Perhaps I'm the exception, but just how many people are driving to indie hipster "Italian" bakeries on King West?
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Honestly, I think the biggest difference the restaurants will see is from Friday evening to Sunday night......when folks from outside the city drive down to check out that cool/latest/hippest resto or club they read about on BlogTO or Toronto Life or wherever......if they get the notion that you can't get near the place because of the new lane restrictions on King they may target their business to other areas of the city that they feel will be easier to access.

So it really becomes a PR problem rather than a traffic or access problem......combat whatever media (social or otherwise) coverage is letting those people think that you can't get near those places and you should be ok.

It does need to be done though.......losing even a small percentage of a restaurant's Friday to Sunday business could tip things in a bad direction financially.....and if a few of these happen during the pilot then the pilot's chances of being extended get hurt.

Far too often in these discussions people are in a rush to "pick sides" and label others (eg pro car or anti car) when what we should be doing is looking at it from the point of view that a successful pilot is one that moves the streetcars (and, really, the people in them) faster and more efficiently whilst not harming the businesses along the route.........don't look at the businesses as enemies but create the environment that the pilot hurts them the least (if at all) and they become allies.
 
Wouldn't it be nice to park somewhere cheap/free and then get to your destination hassle free?

Oh, wait, now you can.
 
innsertnamehere said:
honestly after biking the King pilot, I prefer richmond / adelaide. Wide bike lanes, and you don't have to constantly stop to let passengers onto streetcars. Also better signal timing. I rode from Victoria to Bathurst this morning hitting only a single stoplight at Portland.
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I meant putting the bike lanes on King.
 
As a King & Spadina resident, primarily a walker, frequent TTC user and occasional car driver, I haven't minded the King St pilot one bit. I was already doing convoluted driving from and to my place already. This doesn't really change much. One thing that needs to be changed is parking along Spadina north of King and south of Adelaide. That has to go. It creates all sorts of traffic backlogs at various times of day.

Pedestrians need to observe the walk/don't walk signage as well. I've been initially guilty of walking out of habit immediately when the traffic light turns green but I've gotten used to the delay in a matter of a week.

I do think the bike lanes should be removed from Richmond and Adelaide in favour for King St.

It is amusing to see literally the night and day difference on King St once 10pm hits. The taxis pretty much turn King St back to what it once was, congested. That exception should be scrapped too.
 
innsertnamehere said:
honestly after biking the King pilot, I prefer richmond / adelaide. Wide bike lanes, and you don't have to constantly stop to let passengers onto streetcars. Also better signal timing. I rode from Victoria to Bathurst this morning hitting only a single stoplight at Portland.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, but context is everything. If one is *commuting* then without doubt (and contrary to the claims of some posters) the fastest way is A/R. If you wish to take the 'scenic route' then King is good, but don't treat it like a rapid-thoroughfare! That is exactly what's going to kill it, cyclist or driver alike.

It's a *transit mall* and there *just isn't enough space* to make it a multi-use throughway. A/R work so well because they are on one-way streets, which if you think about the physical logistics, greatly simplifies (relatively!) the complexity of junctions and contra-flow vehicle traffic. Those two (A/R) are 'bike throughways'. King isn't, and it never should be. There's going to be enough trouble as it is protecting pedestrians from traffic, and themselves. King is an excellent destination, it's not an excellent thoroughfare, if even good. The best it should get is to share the vehicle lanes, and even that is too much vehicle.
 
steveintoronto said:
Those two (A/R) are 'bike throughways'. King isn't, and it never should be.
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The problem is Richmond and Adelaide don't really go far at all. Bikelanes end at Niagara. Much of residential density happens a lot farther to the west. King is and will always have to be a cycling route.
 
steveintoronto said:
Absolutely, but context is everything. If one is *commuting* then without doubt (and contrary to the claims of some posters) the fastest way is A/R. If you wish to take the 'scenic route' then King is good, but don't treat it like a rapid-thoroughfare! That is exactly what's going to kill it, cyclist or driver alike.

It's a *transit mall* and there *just isn't enough space* to make it a multi-use throughway. A/R work so well because they are on one-way streets, which if you think about the physical logistics, greatly simplifies (relatively!) the complexity of junctions and contra-flow vehicle traffic. Those two (A/R) are 'bike throughways'. King isn't, and it never should be. There's going to be enough trouble as it is protecting pedestrians from traffic, and themselves. King is an excellent destination, it's not an excellent thoroughfare, if even good. The best it should get is to share the vehicle lanes, and even that is too much vehicle.
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I dont really get this logic. How is it not a good bike thoroughfare? It's just as good as adelaide/richmond, if not better (I rode it today). Bikes are not being restricted from king, nor should they be. Like I've said earlier in this thread, I quite frankly think using part of king for pedestrians is horseshit and a waste of space. As of now if one good thing is coming out of that wasted lane, it's that it's a wide open bike strip.
 
lister said:
One thing that needs to be changed is parking along Spadina north of King and south of Adelaide. That has to go. It creates all sorts of traffic backlogs at various times of day.
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THIS.

Why there is parking on Spadina, one of the busiest streets in the city (it is basically a long on/off-ramp to the Gardiner) is so beyond me. Why four or five drivers parking gets to inconvenience thousands of drivers makes no sense. I have written Joe Cressy’s office numerous times and while his assistant gets back to me, nothing changes (I know Councillor doesn’t actually care, since it involves making drivers’ lives easier).

lister said:
It is amusing to see literally the night and day difference on King St once 10pm hits. The taxis pretty much turn King St back to what it once was, congested. That exception should be scrapped too.
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THIS. Agree 400%.

But the taxi lobby has basically paid off multiple city Councillors, and perhaps the Mayor, so good luck removing this exception.
 
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