King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[EastYorkTTCFan]

lol..Katowice has money that Toronto doesn't have? Technically, it may be true, but *practically*? What a freakin' sad comment on how mismanaged and bereft this town is. On one hand, Canada loves to brag about what a world leading society and nation we are. On the other hand...oh, sorry, the other hand is preoccupied with auto-gratification...

And Calgary! (Oil industry ground zero), and the Graham Transit Mall in Winnipeg, amongst others.
Images for Graham Transit Mall
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Yes and thy all have properly funded transit and don't try and shoehorn things around public transit. It's like how waterfront toronto thought it was good idea to cover over half the sidewalk and put in a paved bike path all on the same level as the streetcar tracks.

 

[drum118]

Public meeting

Monday, February 13th, 2017
6:30 p.m. to 9:00 p.m.
Metro Hall, Room 308/309,
55 John Street south east corner of King Street West and John Street

 

[Cobra]

Public meeting

Monday, February 13th, 2017
6:30 p.m. to 9:00 p.m.
Metro Hall, Room 308/309,
55 John Street south east corner of King Street West and John Street

It's important that the pro transit mall be much much louder than pro-cars that will fight losing King Street access.

 

[steveintoronto]

It's important that the pro transit mall be much much louder than pro-cars that will fight losing King Street access.

I was just thinking same. I suspect it will be a frustrating experience, it's been years since I attended a public meeting at City Hall (that was for Off-Leash Parks for dogs, Cnclr Fletcher hosted it) but just the body count will mean something. I just might make it a point of going. I've never been inside Metro Hall, I'll stone two birds with one kill.

 

[Zach6668]

With respect to the centre running cycle lanes in the render above...

I think we need to recognize that no matter the configuration, King Street will not be a superhighway for bicycles. We have that in the Richmond/Adelaide corridor just to the north for higher speed travel. King Street is a destination street, with tons of restaurants and bars and shops, etc. This will be a local cycling route, at best, which is ideal to help prop up local merchants, etc. It will probably be slow, there'll be mixing with pedestrians, likely, etc. Speedsters should take Adelaide/Richmond.

 

[steveintoronto]

It will probably be slow, there'll be mixing with pedestrians, likely, etc.

And there-in lies the problem, they're not compatible. Andrew's point was to avoid that conflict by putting them in a centre reservation.

My feeling is to separate the cycling completely, or not have it at all. One only has to view the debacle on the Waterfront to see how incompatible mixing them on a sidewalk is.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Public meeting

Monday, February 13th, 2017
6:30 p.m. to 9:00 p.m.
Metro Hall, Room 308/309,
55 John Street south east corner of King Street West and John Street

At the very least, include the link. See http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=a8349ca0cc3f8510VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD

Otherwise, it could be assumed to be "fake news" without the source.

 

[steveintoronto]

See http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=a8349ca0cc3f8510VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD

I'm reading that now, and realize that this isn't, at least at this stage, geared to public participation, it's more for SAGs:

 

[Cobra]

I'm reading that now, and realize that this isn't, at least at this stage, geared to public participation, it's more for SAGs:

View attachment 97738

I think I'll go to. Any businesses claiming that cars are needed for their survival is pure idiocy and needs to be called out on the spot

 

[drum118]

We invite you to attend the King Street Pilot Study Public Meeting!

King Street is the busiest surface transit route in the entire City, carrying more than 65,000 riders on a typical weekday. But we recognize that King Street isn't working well and more significant change is needed to improve transit service on King Street. The pilot project(s) will test a range of options to determine what might further improve transit reliability, capacity, and efficiency.

The King Street Pilot Study is exploring bold, transformative ideas for how to redesign King Street in order to achieve three broad city-building objectives: moving people on transit more efciently, improving placemaking and the public realm, and supporting business and economic prosperity. The study is looking at a range of options from Dufferin Street in the west to River Street in the east and is intended to lead to a pilot project.

We encourage you to attend our public meeting to learn more and share your thoughts on the work we've done to date on the King Street Pilot Study. At the meeting, we intend to bring forward a range of pilot options for public feedback and discussion.

Meeting details:

Monday, February 13th, 2017
6:30 p.m. to 9:00 p.m.
Metro Hall, Room 308/309,
55 John Street south east corner of King Street West and John Street

 

[gweed123]

Well done. What program did you use? If you haven't given Sketchup a go yet, it's extremely useful for making stuff like this. I've used it in the past to design homes and cottages for fun, but recently I've tried making models of transit-related things (e.g station layouts). It's free, easy, contains 3D components like cars/peds/light standards, and members of the public have created models of transit vehicles they've uploaded publicly. Definitely good for flying around and exporting images from any angle of your street scene.

Thanks! And I used Illustrator for it. I've tried SketchUp a little bit (by no means would I consider myself proficient in it though), and if I were to do a more complicated rendering requiring multiple angles of the same area I would definitely consider using it.

 

[Fred.S]

Thanks! And I used Illustrator for it. I've tried SketchUp a little bit (by no means would I consider myself proficient in it though), and if I were to do a more complicated rendering requiring multiple angles of the same area I would definitely consider using it.

Your rendering inspired me to also come up with something in sketchup, which hopefully I'll post here soon. I agree with other posts that having bike lanes in the centre is probably not a good idea, but it would be nice if there was a good effort at making proper cycling infrastructure. If you're going to shift the streetcar lanes, maybe have them together on one side, and the bike trail on the other. Though my preference is just having the bike lanes on the outside.

I attached the Toronto Lane Width Guidelines. Note that streetcar lanes must be at least 3.1 m. As well, If buses regularly run the route, or part of it, they need to have 3.3 m, though this can be lower if there's a 0.7 m buffer between them and bike lanes.

 

[crs1026]

If you're going to shift the streetcar lanes, maybe have them together on one side, and the bike trail on the other. Though my preference is just having the bike lanes on the outside.

I had been wondering about this as well. Streets don't have to be symmetrical. If you assume that this configuration leads to street car island platforms on the "center" side of the streetcar portion, you can wind the bike lane instead of having it go straight - deals with the 'expressway' cyclist issue. And gives alighting streetcar passengers a hint/place to look both ways before crossing the bike lanes. (could that be signalled? could pedestrians have a legal right of way over bikes?) Maybe you can fit some delivery vehicle unloading zones in there as well.

- Paul

 

[Zach6668]

And there-in lies the problem, they're not compatible. Andrew's point was to avoid that conflict by putting them in a centre reservation.

My feeling is to separate the cycling completely, or not have it at all. One only has to view the debacle on the Waterfront to see how incompatible mixing them on a sidewalk is.

They're perfectly compatible everywhere else in the world... we'll learn.

 

[steveintoronto]

They're perfectly compatible everywhere else in the world... we'll learn.

They're not even compatible in Toronto. I'm both a pedestrian, walking long distances, often with a dog, and distance cyclist, have been for decades, and it never ceases to amaze me how many Toronto cyclists just don't 'get it'.

Cyclists and pedestrians clash on Mimico path
A battle is brewing between pedestrians and cyclists over a section of multi-use path in the Mimico area. Cristina Howorun finds out what’s causing this rift.

Jul 12, 2015, 6:22 PM

http://www.680news.com/video/2015/07/12/cyclists-and-pedestrians-clash-on-mimico-path/

Better bike infrastructure would make Edmonton safer for pedestrians and cyclists: pedestrian
Study finds bikers choose sidewalks in the winter because lanes aren’t cleared.

By: Jeremy Simes Metro Published on Fri Dec 09 2016
Mark Butt says walking along Stony Plain Road as it turns into 104 Avenue near Oliver made him nervous — cyclists would narrowly swerve around him on the sidewalk.

They were “nearly forcing me onto the road itself on many occasions,” Butt said.

He added that most of the cyclists, "did not even use their bells to notify me they were coming up.”

Butt’s comments come in light of a leaked Edmonton Police email, in which an officer says “undesirables” are cycling on sidewalks along 118 Avenue, in the city’s northeast near Wayne Gretzky Drive.

The force had launched an operation in the area, ticketing those who’ve been breaking the law — which includes cyclists riding on sidewalks.

[...]

http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmont...ton-sidewalks-better-bike-infrastructure.html

Clashes between cyclists, pedestrians go off-road

By Jon Willing, Ottawa Sun

First posted: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 02:12 PM EDT | Updated: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 06:59 PM EDT

Conflicts between cyclists and pedestrians are prompting the city to reconsider how it designs multi-use paths.

For people who never use the paths, the fracas might seem ridiculous.

But anyone who regularly rides or walks the National Capital Commission paths, particularly the paths along the Ottawa River or Rideau Canal, will often see the friction between cyclists and pedestrians.

Cyclists are flying down the smooth surface and slam on the brakes behind pedestrians, who are sometimes walking two or three abreast across the lane.

The city is expanding its network of multi-use paths (nicknamed "mups" inside the walls of City Hall) and one councillor is running head-on into this debate.

Planning is ongoing for a path on the western side of the Rideau River south of Hwy. 417. Capital Coun. David Chernushenko said one group wants the path to be a high-speed commuter route for cyclists, while others want the path to be friendly to all users.

"I don't want to take away from either one," Chernushenko said.

The clash has also landed on the radar of city staff, who told council's transportation committee Wednesday they're looking into design options for paths.

The solutions might be building wider paths, or building a double path and segregating cyclists and pedestrians from each other. [...]

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/09/03/clashes-between-cyclists-pedestrians-go-off-road

Lots more online. "They're perfectly compatible everywhere else in the world... we'll learn." Evidently not Zach. The answer is for a segregated bike lane, or no bike lanes at all. It doesn't help that many posters confuse "transit mall" with "pedestrian mall". In either case for each, pedestrians have to be protected from the hordes of mindless cyclists who can't use common sense, let alone protocol, to conduct themselves safely in mixed use traffic.