News   Dec 06, 2021
 118     0 
News   Dec 06, 2021
 333     0 
News   Dec 03, 2021
 2.8K     1 

King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

deerparker

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
592
Reaction score
526
Watched earlier as five cars rolled through a King Street East intersection, despite signage indicating they couldn’t. If the priority for street cars is now permanent, is there a plan to update signals to better match the rules? Otherwise, what is the point? While most drivers seemingly abide, it gives the scofflaws an express route across town.
 

DSC

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
13,923
Reaction score
12,338
Location
St Lawrence Market Area
Watched earlier as five cars rolled through a King Street East intersection, despite signage indicating they couldn’t. If the priority for street cars is now permanent, is there a plan to update signals to better match the rules? Otherwise, what is the point? While most drivers seemingly abide, it gives the scofflaws an express route across town.
We have had this discussion many times before; the fact that enforcement on King is infrequent has not seen a huge volume of people not following the rules and the street is virtually deserted most of the time. (There IS occasional enforcement, I saw several drivers getting tickets last week.) The purpose was to give streetcars a clear route and that has really been accomplished. The whole street is supposed to be rebuilt in 2023 and will, I hope, have a design that better 'nudges' drivers to follow the rules. While some drivers clearly know they are breaking the rules, others are confused and see a green light without noticing the NO ENTRY . It is, apparently, not allowed to change all the 'regular' green lights to green left and/or right green arrows.
 

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
20,754
Reaction score
10,525
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way
Watched earlier as five cars rolled through a King Street East intersection, despite signage indicating they couldn’t. If the priority for street cars is now permanent, is there a plan to update signals to better match the rules? Otherwise, what is the point? While most drivers seemingly abide, it gives the scofflaws an express route across town.
Several problems.

Obsolete traffic signals. No dedicated transit specific signals, other than the go straight signal, which is used even if the streetcars or buses are turning.
4-2-9.jpg
From link.

Not using red and yellow turn arrows, as is used in other jurisdictions.

traffic-control-light-with-different-arrows-in-all-directions-to-be-vector-id679531918
From link.

Single-occupant motor vehicles turning left get priority ahead of the 100+ people on board the streetcars.
 

DSC

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
13,923
Reaction score
12,338
Location
St Lawrence Market Area
Several problems.

Obsolete traffic signals. No dedicated transit specific signals, other than the go straight signal, which is used even if the streetcars or buses are turning.
4-2-9.jpg
From link.

Not using red and yellow turn arrows, as is used in other jurisdictions.

traffic-control-light-with-different-arrows-in-all-directions-to-be-vector-id679531918
From link.

Single-occupant motor vehicles turning left get priority ahead of the 100+ people on board the streetcars.
I was waiting for you to post this for the umpteenth time :-> I actually agree with you but the kinds of traffic lights allowed are set by the Province and they seem unwilling to make any changes.
 

Steve X

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
2,207
Reaction score
1,713
Taxis are also exempted from 10pm-5am at night. They'll need a separated signal to indicated they are allowed to drive through. They should install signs with backlight as the restriction wording sings are hard to read at night.

If they want to keep it simple, they can just install a transit signal and a regular signal with both a regular green proceeding light and a green right pointing arrow. Use the green arrow in the day and the regular green at night. That would fix the problem for most of the day without having major traffic law changes.
 

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
20,754
Reaction score
10,525
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way
Taxis are also exempted from 10pm-5am at night. They'll need a separated signal to indicated they are allowed to drive through. They should install signs with backlight as the restriction wording sings are hard to read at night.

If they want to keep it simple, they can just install a transit signal and a regular signal with both a regular green proceeding light and a green right pointing arrow. Use the green arrow in the day and the regular green at night. That would fix the problem for most of the day without having major traffic law changes.
Like this...
traffic-light-with-free-travel-for-bus-and-taxi-WWPRAP.jpg

From link.

Someone needs to think up a pictograph for taxis.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
17,231
Reaction score
13,516
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
Based on my travels of all 49 states south of the 49th, 10 province and 40 cites in 18 countries, I prefer to see horizontal signals than vertical ones. Saw the first one in Miami a few decades go and was impress seeing it as it gave a clear view as to what was taking place for the intersection. Then there were the various colours of arrows. Saw them on the east coast on our travel this month.

It would be nice to see a steel frame across King St with the various signals using arrows and the bar for streetcars along with the LED no through traffic sign with at least 2 of them on it.

You could put up warning ones about 200-300' from the intersection giving driver following a streetcar extra time to move to the curb lane or be prepare to make a left turn.

Regardless of doing anything to tell drivers that they are not allow past X point, a number will disobey the signals and signs as they feel they have the right to do it or not paying attention.

Time to update the traffic signals and bylaws to match the world.
 

DSC

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
13,923
Reaction score
12,338
Location
St Lawrence Market Area
Astral are putting up transit shelters along King going west from Jarvis. (Where all the stops were moved and the old stops & shelters removed). While it's good to see a few shelters, it seems unfortunate that they are putting them back on the (already quite narrow) sidewalks and not putting them in the curb lane. No doubt 'all will be good" (ha!) in 2023 when the whole street will be redone but ...
 

EastYorkTTCFan

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
3,419
Reaction score
1,211
Location
East York
I was just on king Street on the 503 Kingston road streetcar and I can honestly see why cars are going through without turning off, with all of the cluter on the street now between either TTC streetcar stops, art pieces or restaurant patios it's next to impossible for a driver to be able to get into the right turn lane before they have to turn right off of the street. The city need to rethink how they have it laid out before they make it permanent.
 

DSC

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
13,923
Reaction score
12,338
Location
St Lawrence Market Area
I was just on king Street on the 503 Kingston road streetcar and I can honestly see why cars are going through without turning off, with all of the cluter on the street now between either TTC streetcar stops, art pieces or restaurant patios it's next to impossible for a driver to be able to get into the right turn lane before they have to turn right off of the street. The city need to rethink how they have it laid out before they make it permanent.
The City plans to work and consult on improvements prior to the rebuild - scheduled for 2023. That said, there really are VERY few cars going straight through on King now compared to before.
 

Top