King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[BurlOak]

Experienced cyclists can, when there is no streetcar behind them, ride between the tracks, at a good speed.

Is that not the same as saying that a car can, when there are no streecars, ride in the dedicated streetcar tracks of St. Clair at a good speed.?
Can - maybe yes, but is something they should do.?
I think the law for cyclists is to keep as right as possible on the road.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Is that not the same as saying that a car can, when there are no streecars, ride in the dedicated streetcar tracks of St. Clair at a good speed.?
Can - maybe yes, but is something they should do.?
I think the law for cyclists is to keep as right as possible on the road.

From the MTO Driver's Handbook, at this link:

Cyclists are not required to ride close to the right edge of the road when they are travelling at or faster than the normal speed of traffic at that time and place, or when they are turning left, or getting in position to turn left. (Cyclists are permitted to make a left turn from a left-turn lane, where one is available.

They can use the same lane as the streetcars along King Street. Especially when there is all the street furniture in the right lanes.

From link.

 

[nfitz]

I think the law for cyclists is to keep as right as possible on the road.

I don't believe there's any such law. Back when I was in school, the police used to tell cyclists to take the lane, so as to discourage someone passing unsafely.

Surely on King, bikes SHOULD be in the centre of the two tracks, as it's really the only safe place for them, as there's a single lane. Even if it slows down the streetcar behind it - which will quickly come to a stop.

 

[JasonParis]

When it works well (which is actually most of the time), the pilot is almost like a new downtown east-west subway line thorugh the core. I'd like to see the wider sidealks made permanent and other features to disuade drivers from plowing through lights anyway, but my perspective from riding it almost everyday is that it is a huge success.

I'd also think that adding the 504A/B pilot, 509 and 510 to subway maps may be worthwhile as well

 

[nfitz]

I'd also think that adding the 504A/B pilot, 509 and 510 to subway maps may be worthwhile as well

Given what a complete disaster 504A/504B is east of Sumach (and presumably west of Dufferin?) with the huge service cut, and bunching vehicles, increased short-turns, and large gaps, I don't think it's ready to memorialize yet.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a return to through 504 service, or some other big change yet.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Given what a complete disaster 504A/504B is east of Sumach (and presumably west of Dufferin?) with the huge service cut, and bunching vehicles, increased short-turns, and large gaps, I don't think it's ready to memorialize yet.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a return to through 504 service, or some other big change yet.

When it works well (which is actually most of the time), the pilot is almost like a new downtown east-west subway line thorugh the core. I'd like to see the wider sidealks made permanent and other features to disuade drivers from plowing through lights anyway, but my perspective from riding it almost everyday is that it is a huge success.

I'd also think that adding the 504A/B pilot, 509 and 510 to subway maps may be worthwhile as well

I mean, TTC's reasoning for that was this summer, during construction on Broadview, when they first came up with the 504A Dundas West-Distllery branch, and that it was faster and more realible then the original through service, especially through the pilot area. I'd like to think of the Pilot area more as a ROW, like on Queen's Quay, Spadina or St. Clair, then a line that should be memorialzed on a subway map. As nfitz mentioned above, there have been issues with realibity east and west of Dufferin and Sumach, so let's not memorialize it. The 514, might however, return in the future when the tracks are built into the East Portlands ( assuming that ever happens ! )

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Don't read if you don't want to blow a gasket:

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...oject-is-no-solution-for-congestion-woes.html

"My numbers are bigger than your numbers". Probably not the IQ.

AoD

 

[asher__jo]

Yes, I read that earlier today. That ridership has surged would be indicative that the pilot has been a success and that their was latent demand. All the more reason to make the pilot project more permanent and take further steps to restrict auto traffic on King St, while also beginning planning for the Relief line extended west.

 

[crs1026]

Puuting aside the acerbic style, I agree with her basic point. We need to stop believing that a toe-in-the-water intervention will deliver transformational level impact. In for a penny, in for a pound: Implement a left turn ban, no-autos on tracks, transity priority solution all the way from Broadview to Roncy and then see how the service functions.

- Paul

 

[DSC]

Putting aside the acerbic style, I agree with her basic point. We need to stop believing that a toe-in-the-water intervention will deliver transformational level impact. In for a penny, in for a pound: Implement a left turn ban, no-autos on tracks, transit priority solution all the way from Broadview to Roncy and then see how the service functions.

- Paul

What she did not deal with (or maybe understand) is that when one has a pilot project you really cannot make all the changes you want or should. The temporary street art and furniture, the less than great signage and the fact that the sidewalks remain narrow are all things that if (when) the pilot become permanent will be changed and improved.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Puuting aside the acerbic style, I agree with her basic point. We need to stop believing that a toe-in-the-water intervention will deliver transformational level impact. In for a penny, in for a pound: Implement a left turn ban, no-autos on tracks, transity priority solution all the way from Broadview to Roncy and then see how the service functions.

- Paul

I would say it is a transformational level of impact for riders - if a 10+% increase in ridership for along stagnating line isn't convincing enough for a pilot with rather weak enforcement, I am not sure what is. Also - if one can't even deal with the [perceived] negative impact of what is a relatively minor project, they definitely aren't ready to deal with even more transformative in nature.

As to acerbic? Nay, more like self-centered. Then again, she is the one who complained bitterly about gentrification while lacking the self-awareness that one was part and parcel of that process.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

Don't read if you don't want to blow a gasket:

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...oject-is-no-solution-for-congestion-woes.html

"My numbers are bigger than your numbers". Probably not the IQ.

AoD

She's not entirely wrong.

And her suggestion that "If the city were truly serious about reducing jam, it would ban cars (except for delivery vehicles) from the downtown core during rush hour or explore other means of regulating flow, such as restricting traffic to local car owners or “rationing” space with a license plate restriction system " is great!

 

[robmausser]

Don't read if you don't want to blow a gasket:

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...oject-is-no-solution-for-congestion-woes.html

"My numbers are bigger than your numbers". Probably not the IQ.

AoD

I will say this: the traffic light priority for the streetcars could be improved. I notice while taking the Streetcars on King, the biggest holdup is the traffic lights.

 

[lead82]

Another big hold up is the frequent stops. With all door boarding and the slow subway-like manner that the street car doors operate, we need wider spacing to increase the speed of the actual vehicle. It’s amazing that we need to have stops at Bay, Yonge and Church. I’d remove 2 and keep just Yonge. No need for those other stops. It’s a short walk over from both of those stops. Toronto really needs to remove the many closely spaced stops on all its surface routes to increase speed.

 

[asher__jo]

She's not entirely wrong.

And her suggestion that "If the city were truly serious about reducing jam, it would ban cars (except for delivery vehicles) from the downtown core during rush hour or explore other means of regulating flow, such as restricting traffic to local car owners or “rationing” space with a license plate restriction system " is great!

I think that Toronto banning vehicle traffic would be unprecedented and also probably aren't recommended until more public transit is built to absorb the increased ridership that would occur by further limiting vehicle traffic.