Islington Subway Station

[nfitz]

Did that map tell you there is a Condo tower building directly in the path of your line with a 5% plus grade to get under it if not more?

The one to the west, between the station and Canadian Tire? The footprint of the building looks such that there's plenty room between the extension of the track right-of-way and the tower. Now they do seem to have a connecting 1-2 story structure that may be partially in the way so at worst you'd expropriate that bit ... but I think it might even still squeeze in - particularly if you cheat a bit and impose on the CP ROW by a couple of feet, where the taper for the west end of the Kipling platform is. Mind you, isn't that building also an issue no matter where the extension goes?

Or was there a building I missed?

I'm not saying this SHOULD be built, merely that it looks as though if you really wanted to build it, that it's doable with some expropriation and creativity.

 

[BurlOak]

The new bridges to go over the existing roads will reduce the clearance height to the point that transport trucks will not be able to use those roads and that's a no go since they service the industrious south of the tracks.

I am not sure about the Condo. It should be noted that the TTC tracks (Eastbound and Westbound) would be adjacent to each other (not seperate like at the station) so the ROW needed may only be about 8m. Still above grade, it may be possible to have a covered section (i.e. using something like MTO noise walls) adjacent to the condos to minimize noise. Shifting the CPR tracks to the South may be an option, especially if the condition of the track is such that some work is needed in the near future.

At the rail over road locations, would it not be possible for the elevation for the TTC subway widening to be a bit higher than the CPR tracks. If the TTC needs a 8m ROW widening, then the bridge would have to be about 400mm higher, assuming the grades on the road (Shorncliffe) is 5%. At East Mall, there appears to be an abandonned bridge to the north of the main CPR bridge. Thus, the clearance is probably already adequate to remove this bridge and replace with a 15 to 20m wide bridge (touching the main CPR line bridge) which would be part of the station or tail tracks.

 

[drum118]

The one to the west, between the station and Canadian Tire? The footprint of the building looks such that there's plenty room between the extension of the track right-of-way and the tower. Now they do seem to have a connecting 1-2 story structure that may be partially in the way so at worst you'd expropriate that bit ... but I think it might even still squeeze in - particularly if you cheat a bit and impose on the CP ROW by a couple of feet, where the taper for the west end of the Kipling platform is. Mind you, isn't that building also an issue no matter where the extension goes?

Or was there a building I missed?

I'm not saying this SHOULD be built, merely that it looks as though if you really wanted to build it, that it's doable with some expropriation and creativity.

A few years ago, I checked the land for that condo and there was no room to put tracks on the south side, as the foot print was to big. You have to go under it or to the north.

Given the fact that there is to be 4 tracks in CP ROW, every foot will be needed for them, let alone TTC. The south side of the ROW has the hydro towers in the way of pushing the ROW south, even if you move to the current tower standards.

Yes you can raise the tracks over the roads for clearance, if the tracks are place next to the existing ROW. The question is what is the requirement for having a subway line next to a busy rail corridor for both clearance and safety issues?

Asked Denver on that question after a derailment took their line out of service a few years ago. It only going to take one derailment to say that the idea of 2 different system side by side is not the way to go.

 

[radioheadmike]

Snippet from Peter Milczyn website -

"The 'pieces' required for the redevelopment of the Bloor-Islington and Westwood Theatre Lands sites are coming together and have entered the next phase. The biggest challenge remains a business plan to fund and deliver the more than $45 million in new infrastructure. Once completed, this will unlock the value of the lands and bring growth, a YMCA, and other community amenities. Initial funding for this plan has already been allocated, and the detailed engineering work is underway. I am working closely with the City's development arm, BUILD Toronto, to secure approvals for the first wave of projects for the Bloor-Islington lands; including a major retail space and specifically a grocery store for this area."

I wonder which retail type store would go nice in that area to give a much needed downtown vibe to that area.

I am excited about a grocery store. Hopefully they will open a modern-urban Loblaws.

 

[Towered]

I think something similar to that mall at Yonge and Eglinton could work here, with condo towers on top of course.

 

[radioheadmike]

I'd like to see something similar to Shops at Don Mills mixed with Mel Lastman Square. One or two High-rise office buildings would be enough.

Mid-rise condos should be built along the south side of Bloor where the current beer store and the Insurance building is and have the beer store located in the podium section of the condo.

As to the parking lot north of the train tracks, they should build an above & under ground parking garage and build a bridge over the train tracks to get the visitors to the shops (and city square) above the subway land. Any land left after the garage should be used as a continuation of the shops and square.

In regards to the parking lot land north of the sun life financial office, they should build another set of high end condos.

With all that said, they need to plant as many trees as possible. Sprinkle them all over that area. There is no such thing as having too many trees.

I also think that the subway land should be priority number one. Westwood theatre land should come in after Islington and Bloor area is completely revitalized.

 

[drum118]

The old Legion building is about to come down. Hoarding is going up and the claw is on site.

New ceiling is almost completed being installed to replace the one that was taken out and looks way better than before.

 

[khris]

So what exactly is being built here?

 

[BurlOak]

So what exactly is being built here?

Is it too late for sanity to prevail and extend the B-D to the 427 (Honeydale). BRT's will be coming along Dundas and 427 - it makes sense to have the mobility hub as close to where these two join (427) as possible.

I know it has been debated here whether there is room for this extension to be at grade - looking at the various maps, I think yes. I have not really seen any official thought put into this extension, so I do not know if there is a definitive answer.

 

[drum118]

Is it too late for sanity to prevail and extend the B-D to the 427 (Honeydale). BRT's will be coming along Dundas and 427 - it makes sense to have the mobility hub as close to where these two join (427) as possible.

I know it has been debated here whether there is room for this extension to be at grade - looking at the various maps, I think yes. I have not really seen any official thought put into this extension, so I do not know if there is a definitive answer.

No it not late to get the BD extended to the Cloverdale area. I have already push for this a number of times at TTC meetings over the past few years as it will do a number of things. The ward councilor who is a TTC commissioner has also requested the line be extended this far.

GO will be able to built a barrier free station cheaper than trying to retro fit Kipling. TTC will save 10' of thousand dollars in operation cost by having buses going to this new terminal. TTC would see less mileage, shorter travel time since buses are not caught up in traffic as well shorter routes. Riders would see faster travel time since they are not caught up traffic or traveling the extra time on Dundas. TTC would have more room for more buses compare to the undersize Kipling. Same apply to MT and GO.

It would kick start the redevelopment of the area since this new terminal would be built on the lands for this development that is part of it.

The cost is about $450-$650 million and would take 7 years from the start of the EA.

Depending on when the EA and business case is done, you can get this plan hub for Kipling that is on hold into the Dundas BRT plan and cost. The Dundas LRT is going to disappear under the new option east of Hurontario St.

The new extension would be built to extend the line west as branch lines for future extension to Sherway as some call for, the airport and along Dundas to Hurontario St/Sq One.

 

[Dan416]

I'm all for a new Cloverdale station. I'd park there!

 

[k10ery]

Up to $650 million to move a few thousand riders from bus to subway, for 5 mins of their trip? No way that passes the cost benefit test, sorry.

 

[Dan416]

Up to $650 million to move a few thousand riders from bus to subway, for 5 mins of their trip? No way that passes the cost benefit test, sorry.

So you think we should build further west to make it more cost-effective than building one station at a time? I would agree with that. We should at least reach Sherway or Dixie, though MCC should be the target.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Is this extension on any real list of projects under consideration? Didn't Rob Ford go through motions of pretending to try to pretend it made sense, and quietly let it drop? Just not going to happen in the next 25 years.

 

[BurlOak]

Up to $650 million to move a few thousand riders from bus to subway, for 5 mins of their trip? No way that passes the cost benefit test, sorry.

I do not know where you got that cost from, but here is what I am thinking.

The options are to build a mobility hub at Kipling or at Honeydale mall (East Mall). So essentially, no cost difference - both would be in the $100M to $200M range. The cost to built an at-grade extension from Kipling to East Mall is probably in the range of $100M to $200M. This is a pretty small cost, to benefit many riders, both from Toronto and Mississauaga, coming in from bus from the north and west.

I actually think this is one of the most important subway extensions in Toronto since it will help show that TTC can build a reasobably priced subway, and not spend $300M + per km even when going through vacant fields. It also has the ability to have another juridiction share in some of the costs.

There would still be space to the West to tunnel under the Milton GO and 427 in the future if needed, but that is a much larger cost that need not be incurred at this time. Tunnelling one station at a time is bad strategy, building one station at a time at grade is very logical.