Is the USA stupid?

[Whoaccio]

Before I get started, the USA is a huge place. Any statement anyone makes trying to describe the entire place is inherently inaccurate. I can't accurately describe the whole thing with one word. Parts of the USA are ahead of everyone in intelligence. The Bay Area, New York, Chicago, Boston and such have an undeniably impressive amount of human capital. I am not talking about them though. There is something fiercely stupid about the US, and I can't quite put my finger on where it comes from.

PISA (the OECD student assessment program) routinely ranks the USA as strongly below average. Contemporary science, like evolution, is openly derided for political points. A significant portion of the population believes humans and dinosaurs co-existed and that humans were created by God 6k years ago. I could go on with scary facts. What really scares me is that many stupid Americans are starting to vote for people precisely because they aren't smart. A big plank of Sarah Palin's "appeal" is that she wasn't educated at a decent (let alone good) school. Mike Huchabee probably would have used a similar approach. It scares me when words like "educated" and "academics" are thrown around like insults.

The WORST part? Everyone assumes US schools are underfunded (insert Republican jab) and understaffed. That truth is the US spends more on K-12 education than any other OECD country, by a wide margin (take that socialist Sweeden!). Washington District spends over 12k per student, and has some of the worst schools in the country! It is absurd! If the US was Africa, I would be more sympathetic. But I don't understand how they can spend so much and end up with such poor results.

 

[Hydrogen]

I see what you are trying to say, but you say it in a rather odd way. Rather than areas, or even human capital (whatever the f*ck that actually means), I think you mean individuals (or maybe I'm not quite getting your point). If one can describe the people of United States, it's in terms of contrasts and contradictions.

It is always surprising to meet intelligent people who don't believe in things like evolution. But then one should not believe in anything until one grasps the idea it and sees something of how it works. You can't exactly see biological evolution happening all around you. For that reason, to many of these individuals (certainly not all) there is no real need to know anything about evolution. It makes no difference. For others, evolution feels demeaning and appears to undermine the importance of human life. To them, the clear abilities of humans over other animals suggests something special about people. To them, that difference can only be god-given.

At least this is a fragment of an explanation from a person I know in the US.

He has a doctorate. He has his doubts about evolution.


I've also been to really religious areas of United States. That didn't stop the people I encountered there from being very friendly and helpful.

 

[afransen]

I wonder how they manage to achieve such poor results in education and health care given they spend so much more than the OECD average. I don't find the explanation of private delivery being the sole culprit satisfying.

Do you think anti-intellectualism doesn't fly here? Harper has been trying to paint Dion as an intellectual, calling the 'le professeur' in Quebec as a pejorative. I have a hard time sensing what the average Canadian thinks about intellectualism. I found the description of a relatively simple policy in our ongoing federal election as being 'complicated' rather depressing. Doesn't say a lot that's good about Canadians...

 

[lordmandeep]

truth is anti-intellectualism works now as people see Dion as a wimp.

So your average Joe will prefer big strong Harper then.


It did not work before as the leaders were not wimps.

 

[Hydrogen]

No one dislikes intellectuals more than other intellectuals.

If Iggy becomes leader of the Liberals, you can be sure that someone will trot out the "he thinks he's better than us because he's an intellectual" line.

Like Americans, we in Canada bridle at class differences (even though they exist economically). Europeans accept the idea of class differences more readily, but protest against them because they accept them (yes, big generalization here).

 

[Hydrogen]

truth is anti-intellectualism works now as people see Dion as a wimp.

So your average Joe will prefer big strong Harper then.


It did not work before as the leaders were not wimps.

Steve is a little portly.

Considering how much Layton cycles around, I'm sure he could whup both their asses.

Not a reason to vote for his party, but...

 

[afransen]

Maybe instead of a debate they should have a five-way cagematch on the 2nd. That stands a better chance against the VP debates in the ratings battle. Just as much would be accomplished, no doubt.

 

[Brian69]

Not stupid, but a nation of extremes. America is still on the cutting edge of science while having great swaths of regressive fundamentalism.

Regardless of the numbers of the uneducated (intentionally or through a poor education system) America had produced great numbers of scientists and innovations as well as world class universities and research labs. And remember, ignorance in science doesn't necessarily translate to ignorance in other subjects, though geography might be a bit off if Rick Mercer is to be believed. I think it all boils down to numbers--America's population is well above most of the Western world, so you are bound to have a few less than stellar peas in the pod even as you get your fair share of geniuses too.

 

[Whoaccio]

I see what you are trying to say, but you say it in a rather odd way. Rather than areas, or even human capital (whatever the f*ck that actually means), I think you mean individuals (or maybe I'm not quite getting your point). If one can describe the people of United States, it's in terms of contrasts and contradictions.

It's hard to be simple without insulting someone, but here I go. Outside of the MITs, CalTechs and Harvards of the US, most people are idiots. Given we are Canadians (mainly from Toronto), the obvious solution here is to put all of the blame on middle-american rednecks. No doubt, many of these people are fiercely anti-intellectual (or even just plain intelligence). Outside of them though, it goes deeper. Large chunks of black (increasingly Latino) urban America place little value on education. I am sure the writers took some dramatic license, but Season 4 of The Wire absolutely terrified me at the casual indifference many of these families place on their children's education. Test scores and graduation rates largely enforce that.

Maybe alot of what I interpret as "stupid" is just plain cultural difference. When I see hordes of girls, many of them middle class and educated, rushing to a Paris Hilton concert or seeing the absolute joke American politics has become, I can't help but wonder what the hell is going on. The Democratic nomination process degenerated into an absolute joke, at least I consider Hilary Clinton getting a boost in the polls from taking a stiff drink a joke. Now I am sure that, over the next few weeks, the Presidential race will turn into a joke. I don't understand how people would vote for Sarah Palin because she shot a mouse and is "average". I don't feel like I should like Stephen Harper, despite him being most "related" to me. Do American's like this?

I would casually dismiss this as a cultural "oddity", but the sheer dismalness of America's test scores frightens me. Averages don't explain why the US spends more than every other OECD country (per student), yet gets the worst results. There is something cultural behind that. Increasingly, I don't think large numbers of Americans are being equipped to understand the modern world. Orwellian catchphrases dominate election landscapes and I am unsure how much the average partisan understands them. Take "Offshore drilling". Democrats and Republicans are willing to take very dramatic positions on this issue, but I am skeptical if many of them even understand some of the basics of it.

On average, is the USA stupider than it should be?

 

[theowne]

Yes, I find it ridiculous that an idiot like Palin is getting as much traction as she is. I'm even more surprised that a person like Huckabee actually managed to get as far as he did. Strange country. School results are very poor, yes. 24th out of 29 countries on PISA was horrible. Finland spent less and got first/second on most of the categories. Canada did pretty well too. You're also correct in that there is a large black/Hispanic population which hasn't been placing as much emphasis on education and which probably brings the number even lower. And then you have the group of people who despise evolution and vote for presidents they'd like to have a beer with. Seriously, would someone like Palin even be seriously considered up here?

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

 

[adma]

Seriously, would someone like Palin even be seriously considered up here?

Ontario's answer to Palin: Bill Murdoch...

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umICHwvMQqA

 

[Hydrogen]

It's hard to be simple without insulting someone, but here I go. Outside of the MITs, CalTechs and Harvards of the US, most people are idiots. Given we are Canadians (mainly from Toronto), the obvious solution here is to put all of the blame on middle-american rednecks. No doubt, many of these people are fiercely anti-intellectual (or even just plain intelligence). Outside of them though, it goes deeper. Large chunks of black (increasingly Latino) urban America place little value on education.

A casual observation of differences would suggest that Canada is less politically divided than the United States. That's not say that there are no political extremists in this country. Also, religious belief and fundamentalism are more pronounced in the United States than here; but again, there are religious fundamentalists in Canada as well.

Anti-intellectualism always has been popular. One can find in Canada too. In its more extreme expression, certain political regimes in the past set out to kill off the intellectuals who were perceived as a threat to the dominant ideology. And as I mentioned earlier, intellectuals always get a rough ride from others who have been labeled in a similar manner.

When I see hordes of girls, many of them middle class and educated, rushing to a Paris Hilton

Pop culture has its influences, but that does not mean that everyone who flocks to this or other such events is automatically stupid. Tastes change over time. What some people fell unfortunate is the lack of interest or ignorance of other forms of cultural expression. But let's not forget that any discussion about "high" culture is itself surrounded by a great debate as to why it should be deemed as "high" or why it should be taught in the first place. Discussions about art and culture are very political. There is no conclusion to this debate, so some people gravitate towards what they think is popular, or just fun.

or seeing the absolute joke American politics has become

In a democracy, we are all supposed to be part of the governing process. This has never really gotten above voting for much of the population. Then again, being politically involved can mean being involved in your community and society. Certainly party politics has gotten more nasty in an effort to ever differentiate one party from another. And the realities of mass media have brought about the evolution of the sound-bite, which in turn has pretty much eliminated organized debate. I don't see American politics as a joke, but as a symptom of something else. I'm just not sure what it is.

or seeing the absolute joke American politics has become

Test scores bother me. It tells you nothing about the student, but about how well a person can do on a standardized test. Standardized tests present only a very limited way in which knowledge is to be treated, and tell nothing about the future academic possibilities of a given individual. Comparing national scores is like comparing apples and oranges, there are differences all around.

 

[lordmandeep]

imo many Canadaians are idiots to...

They still think Toronto is up tight city conservative city full of WASPS...