How safe should a home be built to be?

[Northern Light]

I ask the question in the light of the violent storms of yesterday, which spawned a tornado in the Ottawa area which leveled many homes.

We often discuss the conundrum here of 'affordable' housing or the lack thereof.

Raising standards in building/fire codes can and should reduce the likelihood of death, serious injury, and the extent of property damage.

Of course, each time one raises the standard, one typically adds to the cost.

Should we require sprinklers in every home?

In an area not overly prone to serious earthquakes, should we reinforce for them at all? (there is a material risk of a serious quake in the Toronto area every few centuries).

What about Tornadoes? There are many ongoing studies as to how to build homes than can resist wind damage at speeds well in excess of 250km/ph; but not without adding at least 25% to construction costs.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1687404815000395

Interesting note from the above link, Canada gets the 2nd most tornadoes of any country in the world, after the United States.

A great number of those are concentrated in southern Ontario.

But if you protected against each of these (tornadoes, quakes and fires) ....you might

Add 25% to construction cost (tornadoes)

1.5% fires

3% for earthquakes (there's quite a range here, so I picked upper middle)

That adds at least 29.5% to the cost of a home.

If one took the higher end estimates for these, you might be look 35% or more.

What should we mandate?

How safe is safe enough?

 

[lenaitch]

Interesting points. It's always going to be a cost vs. risk tradeoff and changing the building/fire codes won't do a thing to improve the lot of existing structures - 'as built standards are grandfathered. One problem with jurisdiction-wide code requirements is the potential to impose costly standards to areas that have no little or no risk. That's where local applications come into play but they can be stricter, not weaker, and will always be mindful of the cost implication of inhibiting development. Generally, the provincial building code applies equally to a new house in Scarborough and an off-the-grid cottage in Kenora.

Sprinkler systems - I actually think this would be a beneficial enhancement (again, barring the cost). Consideration would have to be given to the impact on the water distribution infrastructure, particularly if the building is on a private well. I say this not knowing the GPM demands of a system.

Earthquakes - I know virtually nothing of 'quake-proofing' a structure, but given Ontario's low risk, especially in the risk to life/extensive damage range I don't see how the cost could be justified, let alone retro-fitting.

Tornadoes - In addition to hardening the structure, you have to consider the risk from falling/flying objects. Ontario does get the highest number of tornadoes in Canada but the vast majority of them are F0-F1.

 

[Johnny Au]

Not just that, but downtown areas aren't immune to tornadoes, contrary to popular belief: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tornadoes_striking_downtown_areas_of_large_cities

 

[SunriseChampion]

I have no idea what the middle ground might or should be, but as someone who works in construction, I can attest to the fact that current minimum standards are a joke.

2X4 subdivision roof joists at 24" o.c.? Ok, might as well live in a tent, bruv. ....for example.

People already pay 600-800k+ for the most piece of rubbish construction money can buy, so I'm not sure what could possibly be mandated to make things better in terms of safety and quality.

I'm telling you guys, I get called in to do repairs or "save us" jobs and I just want to puke. All to code, mind you.

 

[lenaitch]

I have no idea what the middle ground might or should be, but as someone who works in construction, I can attest to the fact that current minimum standards are a joke.

2X4 subdivision roof joists at 24" o.c.? Ok, might as well live in a tent, bruv. ....for example.

People already pay 600-800k+ for the most piece of rubbish construction money can buy, so I'm not sure what could possibly be mandated to make things better in terms of safety and quality.

I'm telling you guys, I get called in to do repairs or "save us" jobs and I just want to puke. All to code, mind you.

That's incredible. I had no idea that was still acceptable standard. My daughter lived in a 'student ghetto' townhouse a few years ago. No insulation in the exterior walls and I swear the paint gave more structural strength than the framing. Rumour has it that the builder moved the insulation from unit to unit ahead of the inspector.

 

[SunriseChampion]

That's incredible. I had no idea that was still acceptable standard. My daughter lived in a 'student ghetto' townhouse a few years ago. No insulation in the exterior walls and I swear the paint gave more structural strength than the framing. Rumour has it that the builder moved the insulation from unit to unit ahead of the inspector.

I don't even know if it is acceptable standard, to be honest, I just see it going down.
Also, the 3/8 plywood roof decking. I mean, you may as well build it out of paper. It's like walking on a water bed.
>>>>>>>

LOL! I believe it.

The things I've seen.....I can't unsee.

The worst part is that I work in custom residential. Some of the absolute rubbish I've seen people paying millions to have built blows my mind. I actually refuse to do work if I feel the substrates that I'm to be working with aren't up to my standard. My standard being such that it reflects the pride I take in my art. Most of my client contractors are legit and immediately do as I ask, if there's a problem (usually there isn't, they're golden) but I've dealt with some shaaaaaady p.o.s. builders who short-cut everything and just higher the shittiest and cheapest tradespeople. I've done jobs I don't even put on my list of jobs completed as I'm embarrassed to be associated with them.

 

[Johnny Au]

Also, the 3/8 plywood roof decking. I mean, you may as well build it out of paper. It's like walking on a water bed.

...or "softwood"

After all, "softwood" is much less expensive (it could very well be excess soft foam from upholstery and mattress manufacturers).

 

[Northern Light]

CBC Radio was discussion this issue today, and someone they had on said that 'Hurricane straps' tieing in' the roof to the framing of the rest of the house could be done for $50 per new build and make most structures immune to an EF-2 tornado.

I see Home Depot sells these: https://www.homedepot.com/p/18-Gauge-Hurricane-Tie-H2-5A/203302239

I've also heard discussed the notion that simply using strong glue in addition to 'toe nails' substantially reduces the risk of uplift of a roof during a severe wind event at negligible cost.

I will leave it those more expert construction to discuss the veracity of the above.

 

[SunriseChampion]

CBC Radio was discussion this issue today, and someone they had on said that 'Hurricane straps' tieing in' the roof to the framing of the rest of the house could be done for $50 per new build and make most structures immune to an EF-2 tornado.

I see Home Depot sells these: https://www.homedepot.com/p/18-Gauge-Hurricane-Tie-H2-5A/203302239

I've also heard discussed the notion that simply using strong glue in addition to 'toe nails' substantially reduces the risk of uplift of a roof during a severe wind event at negligible cost.

I will leave it those more expert construction to discuss the veracity of the above.

Sounds legit. I have never seen a house damaged by high winds to the degree that some in the Ottawa-Gatineau area are from Friday so I don't know, but it seems like it couldn't hurt and is better than just toe nailing the joists to the wall framing.
Though, one should use bot the ties and glue. I see that done most often, with legit builders.

 

[SunriseChampion]

......also, if your carpenters are using nails and not screws, give up now.

 

[Admiral Beez]

CBC Radio was discussion this issue today, and someone they had on said that 'Hurricane straps' tieing in' the roof to the framing of the rest of the house could be done for $50 per new build and make most structures immune to an EF-2 tornado.

I see Home Depot sells these: https://www.homedepot.com/p/18-Gauge-Hurricane-Tie-H2-5A/203302239

I've also heard discussed the notion that simply using strong glue in addition to 'toe nails' substantially reduces the risk of uplift of a roof during a severe wind event at negligible cost.

I will leave it those more expert construction to discuss the veracity of the above.

For seven years I was the marketing director at a major Canadian construction products company, and I remember my surprise when visiting house framing sites when told the rooves were simply placed and tacked on top of the walls. Essentially the only thing keeping the roof on is gravity.

Now custom built homes often have a long metal rod set into the concrete foundation that extends to the roof, to which the joists are bolted to. But that’s not happening unless specified.

 

[Filip]

For seven years I was the marketing director at a major Canadian construction products company, and I remember my surprise when visiting house framing sites when told the rooves were simply placed and tacked on top of the walls. Essentially the only thing keeping the roof on is gravity.

Now custom built homes often have a long metal rod set into the concrete foundation that extends to the roof, to which the joists are bolted to. But that’s not happening unless specified.

What the??

 

[yoshirocks702]

IMO there's a fairly simple solution, build houses like condos, make it out of concrete including the roof. They have ICF construction already which i think would work well. https://disastersafehomes.com/index.php This site claims they've been building houses like this in Guam for years, and that they survive EF5 tornadoes.

I've seen something similar on TV on Holmes on Homes episode is called Lien on me where they use precast concrete. http://www.cpci.ca/en/about_us/project_month/march_2008/

The only thing is that from what I understand concrete isn't the most "green" method to building compared to wood. Other thing is cost, as this would definitely be more expensive to make. A good majority of older houses in Toronto (pre 70's) are double brick which is similar to the idea of building out of concrete (except the roof, probably the most important part). These days building double brick is way more expensive, although its still done across the pond in England (probably because timber is more expensive there).

 

[BurlOak]

IMO there's a fairly simple solution, build houses like condos, make it out of concrete including the roof. They have ICF construction already which i think would work well. https://disastersafehomes.com/index.php This site claims they've been building houses like this in Guam for years, and that they survive EF5 tornadoes.

I've seen something similar on TV on Holmes on Homes episode is called Lien on me where they use precast concrete. http://www.cpci.ca/en/about_us/project_month/march_2008/

The only thing is that from what I understand concrete isn't the most "green" method to building compared to wood. Other thing is cost, as this would definitely be more expensive to make. A good majority of older houses in Toronto (pre 70's) are double brick which is similar to the idea of building out of concrete (except the roof, probably the most important part). These days building double brick is way more expensive, although its still done across the pond in England (probably because timber is more expensive there).

Are we not going the other way?

Ontario to allow taller wood frame buildings with new fire safety requirements

 

[SunriseChampion]

Now custom built homes often have a long metal rod set into the concrete foundation that extends to the roof, to which the joists are bolted to. But that’s not happening unless specified.

Ooooooh, that's not happening. Pretty well ever.