Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[mdrejhon]

Interchange with a Gage/Ottawa bus could be achieved with a bi-directional bus loop, using Scott Park as the terminus of the loop (for bus start / bus end / bus changeover / driver changeovers)

(A) The short distance between escarpment & waterfront makes NON-looped north-south buses uneconomical
(B) Thus, they need to go looped, or L-shaped to make north-south bus routes longer
(C) If looped, they need an origin/destination terminus (for bus changeovers)
(D) Scott Park provides a convenient possible terminus for a looped bus, as follows:

Gage/Ottawa Bus Loop idea:

Buses would serve both ways (clockwise and counterclockwise -- taking Industrial instead of Brulington), hitting both Gage north-south, Ottawa north-south, and interchange with both Scott Park LRT station AND Ottawa Street LRT station. Bam. Solved. Uneconomical north-south bus route gains excellent farebox recovery potential, and the argument of Scott Park-vs-Gage becomes adequately solveable.

Yes, I'd prefer it be at Gage Ave, rather than Scott Park, for easier interchangeability. But it actually doesn't affect the bus route as much as one thinks, due to the loop nature of a more financially economical north-south bus configuration. So let's turn lemons into lemonade instead.

 

[mdrejhon]

And Gage Park LRT station at the Delta would have future interchange opportunities like this, greatly improving accessibility:

Delta is the only possible interchange point for both:
-- the possible 2-way bus route.
-- the possible gondola.

Gondola alignment may vary, for community, residential and park considerations, but the lower gondola station could very nearby, and essentially be right next to the LRT station, in theory.)

Again, Delta (Gage Park) LRT station and Gage Ave LRT station (or Scott if it's not moved) are two separate apples & oranges. Both stations need to exist. For very different reasons, as you can see, from all my above images. Very different future interchange opportunities.

TLDR: The argument of merging LRT two stations into one along this section, does not make sense. There are mutually-exclusive interchange opportunities.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The stub line was always questionable....felt like a tourist tram line. Even worse it didn't even connect with Hunter GO. And I didn't think the numbers justified it. It was an ideological stub line...not based on any numbers. A bus shuttle every 5 minutes suffices.

A good compromise could be extending the B-Line to Eastgate and then north to Confed GO (plus Walmart which would add some trip generators from downtown). The Confed Go always felt like a natural terminus to me.

And then when there is funding to have the A-Line go up the mountain then the connection West Harbour can be built.

Actually, good news.

Several of us have some information that pro-LRT residents will probably like the alternatives. Keep tuned for 2 weeks.

Ignore the clickbait headline.

Also:
CBC: Procurement Process for Hamilton LRT will start as early as this month

This is in fact a good news story.

The A-Line spur would have been mix in with traffic, which does not fit in with the City's vision of rapid transit.

The A-Line 'express' bus currently runs 7/8 empty outside of the McNab-Mohawk College stretch along the route.

This frees up money for a possible *crosses fingers* B-Line extension back to Eastgate as originally planned. This has been a very popular bit of feedback the City & Metrolinx has been receiving.

Either that or the money will be used to turn the current joke of an A-Line Express Bus route into a BRT-lite.
The A-Line today only runs 6am-10am, 3pm-7pm Mon-Fri. So that spur cash can turn it into a fully-operational BRT-lite in order to build ridership to make future LRT feasible (I've always said the Mohawk Rd LRT, or 'T-Line', should be second built).

All in all, we're happy here in the Hammer that the A-Line streetcar spur was scrapped

Understood, but how does this help build the A-Line to the airport? Won't this push it back?

 

[raptor]

PIC 2 Presentation Boards posted here
and detailed maps here

 

[DC83]

Interchange with a Gage/Ottawa bus could be achieved with a bi-directional bus loop, using Scott Park as the terminus of the loop (for bus start / bus end / bus changeover / driver changeovers)

(A) The short distance between escarpment & waterfront makes NON-looped north-south buses uneconomical
(B) Thus, they need to go looped, or L-shaped to make north-south bus routes longer
(C) If looped, they need an origin/destination terminus (for bus changeovers)
(D) Scott Park provides a convenient possible terminus for a looped bus, as follows:

Gage/Ottawa Bus Loop idea:

View attachment 95986

Buses would serve both ways (clockwise and counterclockwise -- taking Industrial instead of Brulington), hitting both Gage north-south, Ottawa north-south, and interchange with both Scott Park LRT station AND Ottawa Street LRT station. Bam. Solved. Uneconomical north-south bus route gains excellent farebox recovery potential, and the argument of Scott Park-vs-Gage becomes adequately solveable.

Yes, I'd prefer it be at Gage Ave, rather than Scott Park, for easier interchangeability. But it actually doesn't affect the bus route as much as one thinks, due to the loop nature of a more financially economical north-south bus configuration. So let's turn lemons into lemonade instead.

You don't see how ridiculous that jog around Cannon is? And the bus has to share a single lane of traffic with cars. AND it goes down a narrow residential street! Talk about slowing down what's supposed to be 'rapid' transit.

Scrap Scott Park stop, scrap The Delta stop, replace both with a Gage Ave @ King St stop and everyone wins! Oh ya, and we save $10 Million that can go somewhere else along the line like more bikes lanes or street art/ furniture.

 

[DC83]

Understood, but how does this help build the A-Line to the airport? Won't this push it back?

I'll be honest with you.. Hamilton International is a joke. There's almost no passenger traffic, and the parking lot is so big and empty that most travelers choose to drive rather than take transit. (Most Hamiltonians don't even know the A-Line exists, nevermind that it goes to the airport)

The only upside HI has is that it's a somewhat decent employment centre (with plans to expand this). That would be the only reason to extend bus service here. Whether bus service every 5-10 mins is needed is another story lol

 

[DC83]

Hamilton's transit plans have become so political..

-shortened B-Line LRT to appease a certain east end City Councillor
-LRT stops with no rapid connecting feeder buses like Scott Park & The Delta (because helicopter parents & students and old people & picnics)
-Gondolas (lol) cuz they look cool
-A near-empty express bus to a struggling airport because mountain residents want buses on their streets too (they just don't want to get on them)

It's hard to see a positive end product tbh.

 

[mdrejhon]

About A-Line options, what I heard have varied quite a lot. LRT options, BRT options, express buses going frequent only part way such as Limeridge (with 1 in X buses going all way to airport), spur status quo options, Eastgate LRT resurrected, etc. Fed pitch-ins or not.

What I now believe is the media has released only a partial picture.

I am going to wait for official news on the A-line as I am told by multiple sources that the options are possibly better/wider than what the news suggests.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'll be honest with you.. Hamilton International is a joke. There's almost no passenger traffic, and the parking lot is so big and empty that most travelers choose to drive rather than take transit. (Most Hamiltonians don't even know the A-Line exists, nevermind that it goes to the airport)

The only upside HI has is that it's a somewhat decent employment centre (with plans to expand this). That would be the only reason to extend bus service here. Whether bus service every 5-10 mins is needed is another story lol

Hamilton's transit plans have become so political..

-shortened B-Line LRT to appease a certain east end City Councillor
-LRT stops with no rapid connecting feeder buses like Scott Park & The Delta (because helicopter parents & students and old people & picnics)
-Gondolas (lol) cuz they look cool
-A near-empty express bus to a struggling airport because mountain residents want buses on their streets too (they just don't want to get on them)

It's hard to see a positive end product tbh.

About A-Line options, what I heard have varied quite a lot. LRT options, BRT options, express buses going frequent only part way such as Limeridge (with 1 in X buses going all way to airport), spur status quo options, Eastgate LRT resurrected, etc. Fed pitch-ins or not.

What I now believe is the media has released only a partial picture.

I am going to wait for official news on the A-line as I am told by multiple sources that the options are possibly better/wider than what the news suggests.

I bet more people would be behind the A - Line if it was underground and sent at least to the mountain.

 

[mdrejhon]

Mayor Fred tweeted last November about fed fund possibilities:
https://twitter.com/popularethics/status/793627842789707776

Also, I have in past suggested the A-T hybrid idea before:
(Tunnel thru escarpment to surface near Mohawk College)

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

why not just built the whole line to the airport or at least rymal?

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Mayor Fred tweeted last November about fed fund possibilities:
https://twitter.com/popularethics/status/793627842789707776

Also, I have in past suggested the A-T hybrid idea before:
(Tunnel thru escarpment to surface near Mohawk College)

View attachment 96196

Anything involving tunnelling through the escarpment should be viewed with risk in respect to federal funding. Those deals often stipulate completion dates, and a tunnel through the escarpment will require significant environmental study, engineering design, and regulatory approval. I highly doubt it's in the cards for this round of fed stimulus.

 

[christiesplits]

why not just built the whole line to the airport or at least rymal?

I take the 35 College Bus from downtown towards Rymal for work (roughly following the light blue line on the map, three posts above). On the 35 College, after you stop at Mohawk the bus is 80% empty, and that is during rush hour.

I think terminating at Lime Ridge is far more appropriate.

 

[mdrejhon]

why not just built the whole line to the airport or at least rymal?

I have driven the A-Line many times.

Much of the route is sparsely populated, some of it is rural farmland, so a full A-Line is a bit economically risky when an Eastgate extension of B-Line and partial A-Line is more important. And better sidewalks / transit shelters for Upper James -- it is still very much a big box mall style bouelvard in many sections before it hits the rural areas.

Yes, the whole line will eventually need to exist, but Hamilton can do a lot at least incrementally reaching Mohawk and StJoes at first, and Limeridge, and incubating the need for A-Line extensions over time.

Unless Hamilton gets an Ottawa-style LRT Phase 2 windfall grant that more than doubles the LRT budget (adds a funded 2024-2028 phase), and Terry/Donna goes along with it, I do not think full A-Line LRT is being announced this year. Full A-Line is more 2022+ election politics, I think.

 

[gweed123]

One thing I don't understand is why Eastgate is the eastern terminus for the line. To me, going up Centennial a few blocks and terminating at Confederation GO is much more appropriate from a regional connectivity perspective.

As for the A-T hybrid route, I agree that that's a much more sensible solution. Limeridge Mall is a much better terminus point that some arbitrary point on Upper James or the "Mountain Transit Centre".