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Hamilton LRT (Metrolinx/City of Hamilton, Revived)

micheal_can

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Well I think we all know where this is going, but i'll say it for this fraud government:

"BRT will offer the same benefits as LRT but at a fraction of the cost, however if more funding comes on the table from other level of governments we will reassess the situation and select the best option based on updated cost figures"

Ford and Mulroney may be fooling the majority of people around Ontario, but they ain't fooling with me.

*I dont know the official results of the study, but it's where I strongly believe this is going

And Ford just helped Trudeau get a few more Liberal seats for the next federal election.
 

mdrejhon

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Well I think we all know where this is going, but i'll say it for this fraud government:

"BRT will offer the same benefits as LRT but at a fraction of the cost, however if more funding comes on the table from other level of governments we will reassess the situation and select the best option based on updated cost figures"

Ford and Mulroney may be fooling the majority of people around Ontario, but they ain't fooling with me.

*I dont know the official results of the study, but it's where I strongly believe this is going
There are major forces that will sabotage a BRT-only attempt, delaying the $1B until a triparte agreement to fund an LRT.

Whether this is fortunate or unfortunate is up to you, but a BRT-only plan is DOA. The #BRTcreep campaign also helped make sure of that,

If a BRT happens, it’s a watered down bus lane (mostly mixed vehicle, with strategic sections and jump lanes) with transit priority — at best. Ala, a “BRT lite” or a BRTino (BRT in name only). Anything better automatically commandeers the plan back to LRT, even if it means a delay until enough funding.

They found that a True Transitway BRT needs more land expropriation than the LRT, and the car drivers won’t stand for that. Also, many developers have staked lobby interests on LRT, too.
 
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Streety McCarface

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I don't know, Waterloo got a 19 km system with traffic light priority, (including an MSF) for less than that...
16 km.

While signal priority is cheap, there's no grade separation so it's barely more expensive than installing new traffic lights. As a result, frequencies, capacity, and speeds suffer.

Waterloo's system only requires 15 trains, Hamilton's will probably require double that, and the flexities were always low-balled, meaning vehicle costs are going to be even more expensive.

Waterloo also had the benefit of half the route running on old freight corridors, meaning disruption, compensation, construction time, and material costs were far less.
 

W. K. Lis

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16 km.

While signal priority is cheap, there's no grade separation so it's barely more expensive than installing new traffic lights. As a result, frequencies, capacity, and speeds suffer.

Waterloo's system only requires 15 trains, Hamilton's will probably require double that, and the flexities were always low-balled, meaning vehicle costs are going to be even more expensive.

Waterloo also had the benefit of half the route running on old freight corridors, meaning disruption, compensation, construction time, and material costs were far less.

The (Bombardier) Flexities will now be manufactured by Alstom.

Alstom’s acquisition of Bombardier Transportation cleared by European Commission

Alstom’s proposed acquisition of Bombardier Transportation was approved by the European Commission on July 31, subject to full compliance with a number of commitments offered by Alstom.

‘Thanks to the comprehensive remedies offered to solve the competition concerns in the areas of very high speed, main line trains and main line signalling, the Commission has been able to speedily review and approve this transaction’, said Margrethe Vestager, Executive Vice-President in charge of competition policy.

The acquisition is expected to close in the first half of 2021, subject to further approvals in several other jurisdictions and customary conditions.

Competition concerns

In February 2019 the Commission had blocked a previously proposed merger of Siemens Mobility and Alstom, saying the companies had not offered sufficient remedies to address its concerns about competition in the signalling and very high speed train markets.

A year later, a memorandum of understanding was signed for Alstom to acquire 100% of Bombardier Transportation from Bombardier Inc and Caisse de Dépôt et Placement du Québec.

Alstom Chairman & CEO Henri Poupart-Lafarge said Bombardier Transportation would bring a ‘complementary geographical presence and industrial footprint in growing markets, as well as additional technological platforms’, while Bombardier Inc President & CEO Alain Bellemare said the sale of the Transportation division would enable it to focus on its business aircraft activities.

The European Commission was formally notified of the proposed transaction on June 11...
 

rbt

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I thought this was just Bombardier Europe? Not North America

They're buying all of Bombardier Transportation; CDPQ will now own a piece of Alstom.

Other than a couple models of corporate jet and parts for the A220 (for a few years), I'm not sure what else Bombardier will be doing.
 
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W. K. Lis

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They're buying all of Bombardier Transportation; CDPQ will now own a piece of Alstom.

Other than a couple models of corporate jet and parts for the A220 (for a few years), I'm not sure what else Bombardier will be doing.

Don't know if they'll be keeping the Bombardier models, and call them the Alstom Flexity Freedom (and Alstom Flexity Outlook) models.
 

Streety McCarface

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Don't know if they'll be keeping the Bombardier models, and call them the Alstom Flexity Freedom (and Alstom Flexity Outlook) models.
Some people have argued that the EU trade commission and German anti-competition clauses will force bombardier to sell off some redundant designs, so it is very well possible that Alstom won't get the Flexity since it has the Citadis.
 

micheal_can

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They're buying all of Bombardier Transportation; CDPQ will now own a piece of Alstom.

Other than a couple models of corporate jet and parts for the A220 (for a few years), I'm not sure what else Bombardier will be doing.

So, Alstom will now be making the Bilevels for GO?
 

smallspy

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Some people have argued that the EU trade commission and German anti-competition clauses will force bombardier to sell off some redundant designs, so it is very well possible that Alstom won't get the Flexity since it has the Citadis.

It's already happening. As part of the terms of the sale Bombardier will have to sell off its high-speed rail line (likely to Hitachi), and it's Talent line-up. As well, Alstom will divest one of its Coradia product lines as well as the plant where they build them.

This kind of thing is pretty common. For instance, as part of the 2001 purchase of Adtranz Bombardier had to spin off its Variobahn line - it was picked up by Stadler who still make them today.

So, Alstom will now be making the Bilevels for GO?

The deal is still not done yet. It closes at the end of this year, pending the final divestments and approvals.

Dan
 

rbt

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Don't know if they'll be keeping the Bombardier models, and call them the Alstom Flexity Freedom (and Alstom Flexity Outlook) models.

Short-term they'll keep whatever they get orders for. Tearing out an already tooled and busy assembly line very rarely saves money.

Within a decade I expect new designs will take the best bits of both fleets. Bombardier's patent collection was pretty decent.


Vancouver may find themselves in a tricky position in a few decades; the LIM system was niche platform in Bombardier and it's going to be a very tiny platform in the combined Alstom.
 
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KevinT

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I don't know, Waterloo got a 19 km system with traffic light priority, (including an MSF) for less than that...

16 km.

Lol. Google ion light rail "19 km", it would seem that Keolis, Infrastructure Ontario, Wikipedia, as well as countless newspaper and magazine articles would like a word with you...

Edit to add: Okay, googling ion light rail "16 km" also produces a lot of hits. Let's call it a draw.
 

Bureaucromancer

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So, Alstom will now be making the Bilevels for GO?
The deal is still not done yet. It closes at the end of this year, pending the final divestments and approvals.

That said, the bi-levels are one of the more attractive bits of the North American line, with an actually established customer base.
 

Streety McCarface

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Lol. Google ion light rail "19 km", it would seem that Keolis, Infrastructure Ontario, Wikipedia, as well as countless newspaper and magazine articles would like a word with you...

Edit to add: Okay, googling ion light rail "16 km" also produces a lot of hits. Let's call it a draw.
19 km is the total distance where the 1-way sections are counted twice, 16 km is the distance where the one-way sections are not double-counted.

I've made the mistake before.
 

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