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Gondolas as Urban Transit

ShonTron

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I was at a very interesting small-group session this evening where the topic was discussing the role of cable-car technologies in urban setting, but specifically aerial tramway/gondola systems as public transit (as opposed to as the traditional roles of ski lifts or tourist transports; an exception might be the Roosevelt Island Tram).

The meeting is held under "Chatham House Rules", so I can not say who was at that meeting. But I am free to mention what it was about and the discussion that followed.

The focus was on the Medellin, Colombia "Metrocable" system of feeder tramways to the existing metro system in Colombia's second city. This was the first modern application of aerial trams as public transport, linking the barrio of Santo Domingo (a poor, unsafe slum) with the metro. It was a major factor to the improvement of some of the barrios.

There are certainly some serious pros: the lines are cheap to implement, as they require little construction on the ground. Most of the system is pre-manufactured, including towers, cables, vehicles and motors; only the stations need to be built on-site. The first line in Medellin, Line K, cost only about $25 million for a 2 kilometre, 4 station line. Cars come very often, so the small cabin (which can hold up to 10 total) capacity is made up, and this is the ultimate in grade separation.

But there are drawbacks: capacity is limited (up to 3,000 per hour), speed is limited (up to 30-35 km/h crusing speed, average speed lower) and there are aesthetic issues. The systems built in Medellin (and later Caracas) are feeders to bona-fide metro systems.

Of course, the discussion led to possible applications here in North America, such as Toronto. One participant demonstrated how it could be used as a intermediate "downtown relief line" using the Lower Don River ravine to reach downtown from Castle Frank or Broadview. But perhaps more realistic routes could be to Toronto Islands or to the Portlands from the ferry docks, or across the St. Lawrence River in Montreal or Quebec City or other similar situations. I didn't really buy the DRL idea, though it is nice to see how that particular subway line got mentioned as a need.

One could say that this is another gadgetbahn technology, like PRT or Monorail or Linear Induction. But at least there's dozens of working examples, but outside South America, they are in very limited types of applications.

Nevertheless, it was a very interesting discussion.

Here's some Creative Commons pics off of Flickr that I found of Medellin's system.


(medea_material)


(chilangoco)

And there is a technology advocacy link:
http://gondolaproject.com/
 
- I reckon they are more practical in hilly areas. Hamilton for example could do with one.

- I wonder what the legal problems that might arise are? Do we not require air-rights permission from every land owner which we pass?

- An express sky link between Broadview and the roof of Eaton Centre is actually sounding like a good idea.
 
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- I reckon they are more practical in hilly areas. Hamilton for example could do with one.

- I wonder what the legal problems that might arise are? Do we not require air-rights permission from every land owner which we pass?

- An express sky link between Broadview and the roof of Eaton Centre is actually sounding like a good idea.

I could see this working really well in hydro corridors (such as Finch or Kipling). The ugly towers are already there, so what's the problem in adding another one that transports people instead of just power?

Also, this has some interesting benefits in terms of weather. They're used a lot at ski resorts, so we know the technology can be easily adapted to work in a winter climate. Snow storm? Big deal, just go over top of it.

Overall, I really like this idea to replace routes that have busy bus routes but not heavy enough traffic to justify a subway (Finch for example).
 
Overall, I really like this idea to replace routes that have busy bus routes but not heavy enough traffic to justify a subway (Finch for example).

I don't see how Gondolas will meet requirements of our various disability acts. Telling a blind person to find their way into a still moving vehicle with substantial gaps between cars would be a non-starter unless every station had a loading attendent; in which case operating costs become significant.

Wheel chairs could probably use this easily enough though. An opinion from the fire chief would probably be pretty interesting; more ladder trucks and a paved roadway underneath the entire length?


Of course, the various hydro agencies will be strongly against it for the same reason they're against BRT in hydro corridors. It increases their maintenance costs and they require additional land for additional hydro corridors, there is no surplus.
 
The suggested DVP is a potential corridor, and at each station the cable car can separate off of the main tracks onto a side one to wait longer if need be and allow for express services. And each car would have to be manned because of that union thing so they can load people on, and not just sit there with their obligatory bowl of soup.
 
I don't see how Gondolas will meet requirements of our various disability acts. Telling a blind person to find their way into a still moving vehicle with substantial gaps between cars would be a non-starter unless every station had a loading attendent; in which case operating costs become significant.

Wheel chairs could probably use this easily enough though. An opinion from the fire chief would probably be pretty interesting; more ladder trucks and a paved roadway underneath the entire length?


Of course, the various hydro agencies will be strongly against it for the same reason they're against BRT in hydro corridors. It increases their maintenance costs and they require additional land for additional hydro corridors, there is no surplus.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does Europe not have the same requirements that we do? There are several systems in Europe (Lisbon for example). And having an attendant at track level would be no different than having an attendant in an entrance booth.

And I agree, this would be great for the DVP corridor.

I fail to see however how running a new tower beside an older hydro tower would increase the maintenance of the older tower. That's like saying if my neighbour builds a house on his property, I'm going to have to start paying more for the upkeep of my house.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but does Europe not have the same requirements that we do? There are several systems in Europe (Lisbon for example). And having an attendant at track level would be no different than having an attendant in an entrance booth.

I'm not familiar with Europes various rules but the Lisbon Treaty went into force in 2009 with member countries given additional time to adjust internal building code to fit; and as usual everything already built is grandfathered. If you know of a new Gondola proposal it would be interesting to watch the EA process.

I do know the TTC's ACAT would be pretty unhappy with a proposal like this (vehicles that never full stop, etc.).


TTC operational expenses are increased because the routes proposed above for a Gondola (Finch for example) do not have an attendant at an entrance booth, even for the LRT to be installed.


Electricity tower maintenance often uses significant amount of space beside the tower, particularly when working on a live line.

Running a gondola next to their work space would probably require shutting down the Gondola and possibly even removing Gondola wiring to complete these works creating scheduling issues and additional work -- hence increased maintenance costs.

Toronto Hydro corridors are at 100% capacity and do not have width to spare. IESO documents have long shown a line item "Reinforce transmission facilities into downtown Toronto" for 2016 which, in this case, is a very big budget item for building a new corridor or replacing existing towers with larger versions or undergrounding the entire thing using techniques similar to inter-grid exchange points.


Frankly, I think getting subway funding for Finch would be easier than getting the various approvals required for Gondola in a Hydro corridor even if it did not require public funds (private investment covering the bills).
 
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Where are the obligatory swanboat pictures/posts? I thought people on this forum love to trot those out whenever someone brings up any mode of transit other than LRT and HRT.
 
Where are the obligatory swanboat pictures/posts? I thought people on this forum love to trot those out whenever someone brings up any mode of transit other than LRT and HRT.

Great page on it: http://gondolaproject.com/2009/12/19/translating-gondolas-into-urban-gondolas/ ... I particularly like this quote: "When people hear about cable, they only know it on a very basic level. They likely only know it as a niche technology used in mountain regions. Because they only know it in that form, they make an error in logic and assume that because it is rarely used outside mountain regions, it must therefore only be useful in mountain regions."
 
Or they could turn them over to GO and have.......




go_logo.gif
NDOLAS
 
Could there be a safety issue to use gondalas as rapid transit through the Richview-Cherrywood corridor (i.e. Finch Hydro Corridor) such as potential blackouts or electrocution?
 
Could there be a safety issue to use gondalas as rapid transit through the Richview-Cherrywood corridor (i.e. Finch Hydro Corridor) such as potential blackouts or electrocution?

Electrocution would require the gondola to be in contact with the ground, would it not? (or something else in the air besides the cable). I would assume the towers would be grounded. As for blackouts, they build soccer fields for kids underneath hydro lines, so obviously the risk isn't that great.
 
Gondolas logical competition are buses.

Assuming the gondolas runs at 30 kph and 200 m space (24 second between car arrivals) would deliver a maximum of 1500 passengers per hour. Assuming 38 seats per bus, that's 40 buses per hour. Unless you have a robust routing system to send gondolas in different directions and pre-group passengers, the A-B limitation of gondolas makes the marginal at best. Otherwise, 40 buses will cover a lot more area and provide more people routes with less transfers.

Gondolas make sense in Columbia with the vertical gradient. While we have some slopes here, it's not mountainous by any means. As an aside, as someone with an irrational fear of heights, the 'swaying' of every gondola systems I've been on makes me vomit.
 

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