News   Sep 27, 2022
 978     1 
News   Sep 27, 2022
 877     0 
News   Sep 27, 2022
 1.6K     0 

GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

anb

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
344
Reaction score
446
The most logical solution for the Kitchener line right now, is to run any possible weekend service to/from Bramalea, and to make it 30 min all day weekdays as they were probably going to before. Its understandable if they're waiting until September to hopefully roll it out as that's when the overall main construction comes to an end, but even if it happens right now, there would be instant successful ridership right out of the gate.

It would be a game changer for not just the line itself, but the entire network. And especially the UP express as the riders who just use it for anything other than the airport can now split themselves apart on this GO service, and even go beyond now. ML knows that there is really high demand for train service, and almost near everyone riding on the overstuffed and mostly delayed buses on the weekends feel the same way. So if they don't do this at least in a couple weeks, they would be missing out heavily. This also helps out some branches on the Milton line as if it gets detoured, going to Bramalea via a free flowing highway is way more convenient vs going to Port Credit with local traffic and LRT construction in the way.
 
Last edited:

crs1026

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
8,153
Reaction score
13,962
The most logical solution for the Kitchener line right now, is to run any possible weekend service to/from Bramalea, and to make it 30 min all day weekdays as they were probably going to before. Its understandable if they're waiting until September to hopefully roll it out as that's when the overall main construction comes to an end, but even if it happens right now, there would be instant successful ridership right out of the gate.

I share your sense of urgency - but - the new platform at Weston needs just a bit more work before one could get to 30 minute service. Bramalea may need a bit more also. They are almost ready and being worked on, so we just have to be a little patient for a little longer.

But yeah - Hourly service nights and weekends is possible today and it's a crying need, can't happen too soon.

- Paul
 

reaperexpress

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
2,544
Reaction score
3,808
Location
the original Holland Marsh
I share your sense of urgency - but - the new platform at Weston needs just a bit more work before one could get to 30 minute service. Bramalea may need a bit more also. They are almost ready and being worked on, so we just have to be a little patient for a little longer.

But yeah - Hourly service nights and weekends is possible today and it's a crying need, can't happen too soon.

- Paul
I don't see why the 4th platform at Weston is necessary for 30-minute service to Bramalea. Nice to have, sure, but not necessary.

As far as I can tell, 30-minute midday/weekend service doesn't even require the 3rd track, let alone the 4th track. The line has at least 2 tracks from Union to Bramalea apart from a few hundred metres just east of Bramalea station, the average speed of GO local service is roughly the same as UP Express, and the UP Express timetable already leaves gaps at Wice for eastbound trains to merge into the eastbound track without conflicting with UP trains in either direction.

The only caveat is that trains would need to skip Etobicoke North since it doesn't have any platforms on the UP tracks. But that doesn't seem like a big deal, the station is mostly just a commuter park-and-ride anyway. It is also currently weekday-only regardless.

Capture.JPG
 
Last edited:

crs1026

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
8,153
Reaction score
13,962
The only caveat is that trains would need to skip Etobicoke North since it doesn't have any platforms on the UP tracks. But that doesn't seem like a big deal, the station is mostly just a commuter park-and-ride anyway. It is also currently weekday-only regardless.

There’s your showstopper. Etobicoke North does contribute to the ridership, has its local community representatives, provides transit connectivity to North Etobicoke.

I don’t see how it can be cut out of the equation.

- Paul
 

robmausser

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
3,825
Reaction score
5,894
There’s your showstopper. Etobicoke North does contribute to the ridership, has its local community representatives, provides transit connectivity to North Etobicoke.

I don’t see how it can be cut out of the equation.

- Paul

I mean the station is planned to be demolished after the new 401 tunnels are running
 

reaperexpress

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
2,544
Reaction score
3,808
Location
the original Holland Marsh
There’s your showstopper. Etobicoke North does contribute to the ridership, has its local community representatives, provides transit connectivity to North Etobicoke.

I don’t see how it can be cut out of the equation.
Etobicoke North is just a park-and-ride lot. There is hardly anything within walking distance, and the connection to the TTC Kipling bus is not very convenient. As such it doesn't provide any significant local coverage.

On weekday mornings and afternoons it's quite useful because there's a shortage of parking at the other stations. But on evenings and weekends there's plenty of parking at Malton and Weston, so it doesn't contribute much utility. Travelling a bit further to the station not a major deterrent for potential park-and-riders the way it would be if they were arriving by foot or by bicycle. Conversely, it's worth noting that saving 2 minutes by skipping the station also has positive ridership impacts.

Also note that the current weekend bus service skips Etobicoke North, which calls into question how essential it is to ridership.
 

crs1026

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
8,153
Reaction score
13,962
I seem to recall that back in the selling of the move to Woodbine, a commitment was made to not close EN until Woodbine was available. Can’t find the reference , I suspect it was at a Town Hall when Woodbine was announced,
Even so, changing the service profile to reduce service at one station to benefit another is probably inviting a level of concern and confusion that creates needless bad press. And, if the added track and platforms are just about ready, it would be doubly hard to explain why service was halted and then reinstated all over again. While the change may be doable, doing it just because we can seems a lot of trouble for only a short period of relief.
Similarly while one might be able to challenge ML operations to interleave, that’s something with a learning curve, and a predictable disruptive change of platforms for riders at each end of the interleaving. A lot of change that creates pain….
In all respects while one might be able to make the change, I’d leave sleeping dogs be. ML is a “crawl before you walk” operation after all.
What leaves me shaking my head is how some stations - Bloor and Bramalea, al least - have been built with one wide platform and one narrow platform…. And which is most likely to see the heaviest pedestrian volume?
One can’t assume this was ever very well thought through.

- Paul
 

ShonTron

Moderator
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
11,518
Reaction score
6,611
Location
Ward 13 - Toronto Centre
Etobicoke North is just a park-and-ride lot. There is hardly anything within walking distance, and the connection to the TTC Kipling bus is not very convenient. As such it doesn't provide any significant local coverage.

On weekday mornings and afternoons it's quite useful because there's a shortage of parking at the other stations. But on evenings and weekends there's plenty of parking at Malton and Weston, so it doesn't contribute much utility. Travelling a bit further to the station not a major deterrent for potential park-and-riders the way it would be if they were arriving by foot or by bicycle. Conversely, it's worth noting that saving 2 minutes by skipping the station also has positive ridership impacts.

Also note that the current weekend bus service skips Etobicoke North, which calls into question how essential it is to ridership.

The only direct bus connection – the 38 to Woodbridge, Nobleton, and Bolton – was cut several years before the pandemic. As mentioned above, there’s almost no transfer traffic to the Kipling bus, nor anything of any significance within walking distance.

The first AM outbound train from Union skipped Etobicoke North because there wasn’t enough track capacity to serve it. If there’s any station that can be skipped as an interim measure (until Woodbine opens), it’s that one.
 

reaperexpress

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
2,544
Reaction score
3,808
Location
the original Holland Marsh
I seem to recall that back in the selling of the move to Woodbine, a commitment was made to not close EN until Woodbine was available. Can’t find the reference , I suspect it was at a Town Hall when Woodbine was announced,
Even so, changing the service profile to reduce service at one station to benefit another is probably inviting a level of concern and confusion that creates needless bad press. And, if the added track and platforms are just about ready, it would be doubly hard to explain why service was halted and then reinstated all over again.
Implementing a weekend service which skips Etobicoke North is not a reduction of service, because the station has never had weekend service in the first place. The steps would be:
1. Bus service which skips Etobicoke North (current)
2. Train service which skips Etobicoke North (this discussion)
3. Train service which serves Etobicoke North (planned)

As for midday service, if a 30-minute service to Bramalea were interleaved with UP, it would presumably be in addition to the existing hourly service on the 3rd track, since it wouldn't make any sense to lose service to Mount Pleasant and Brampton.

Similarly while one might be able to challenge ML operations to interleave, that’s something with a learning curve, and a predictable disruptive change of platforms for riders at each end of the interleaving. A lot of change that creates pain….
In all respects while one might be able to make the change, I’d leave sleeping dogs be. ML is a “crawl before you walk” operation after all.
Interleaving UP and GO is not new to Metrolinx. The September 2021 schedule also did so, which is how it was able to have 4 tph peak and 2 tph counter-peak on the Kitchener line, in addition to 2tph peak and counter-peak on UP.

We are discussing the possibility of a Bramalea-Union weekend service under the assumption that Metrolinx has not been able to negotiate slots west of Bramalea (or is reluctant to pay what CN is asking). The advantage of interleaving such a service with UP is that it allows for much shorter layovers at Bramalea. If an hourly service were service were operated on the existing third track like the current weekday service, it would spend nearly an hour sitting in Bramalea, since the only passing location is at Malton, just east of Bramalea. As you can see in the conceptual timetable I posted above, slotting into the existing UP timetable would produce a 19-minute layover at Bramalea.
What leaves me shaking my head is how some stations - Bloor and Bramalea, al least - have been built with one wide platform and one narrow platform…. And which is most likely to see the heaviest pedestrian volume?
One can’t assume this was ever very well thought through.
As far as I'm aware, the final track arrangements (i.e. which service in which direction on which track) are part of the design work currently being undertaken by DB/Alstom and Metrolinx. So the service arrangements certainly weren't known more than a decade ago when stations such as Bloor and Bramalea were designed.
 
Last edited:

Allandale25

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
7,617
Reaction score
11,153

This part was interesting to me.

In a small break from routine, most pre-game westbound trains will arrive on the south platform at Exhibition Station. Post-game trains will depart from both platforms as usual, so make sure to check departure boards before you head to the platform.

Fans heading through the tunnel to Liberty Village after the game will no longer have to turn left and up the stairs that lead to the platform. The tunnel has been extended, so people heading to Liberty Village can go straight and up the newly opened stairs, making it easy to get to Atlantic Avenue.
Is this the first time this "extended" tunnel will be used? I've never been to a TFC game and only used Exhibition Station for GO occasionally.
 

innsertnamehere

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
17,288
Reaction score
16,493

This part was interesting to me.


Is this the first time this "extended" tunnel will be used? I've never been to a TFC game and only used Exhibition Station for GO occasionally.
I believe this is the long complete but unopened north tunnel extension which was part of the cancelled Exhibition GO expansion. They are finally opening it as a part of the Ontario Line early works I believe.
 

Deadpool X

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
631
Reaction score
1,069
Location
Toronto
Two things caught my eye here. One is that GO is suggesting running shorter trains for higher speeds. This has been discussed on this board but I don't remember if that was a speculation or had GO suggested that earlier.

The other thing was addition of new services starting 2025-26. Does that mean some of the sections will be electrified by then or will they add more services by improving signalling and track design at that stage?
 

Top