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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Bordercollie

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Crews will be based out of Kitchener.

The first crew will get to the yard very early in the morning, deadhead to London, operate to Toronto, operate back to Kitchener and then be done for the day.

The second crew will apparently take the train bound for London over in Kitchener, and operate west the rest of the way to Kitchener. From what I'm hearing, they will be forced to sit there for a couple of hours before they are cleared to deadhead home to Kitchener and tie up their train.

Dan
Could they not put those dead head trips into service? The train needs to pass all of the stations anyways. It doesn't cost anything extra.
 

rbt

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Pricing has been released for the London Trip.
  • A one-way trip between Toronto and London will be $30
  • St. Marys to Toronto will be $27.50
  • Stratford to Toronto will be $25
  • A trip between London and Kitchener will cost $17.50
fare-table.png


 

lenaitch

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Could they not put those dead head trips into service? The train needs to pass all of the stations anyways. It doesn't cost anything extra.
Depends what "very early in the morning" means for the crew start. Adding stops to a deadhead run lengthens trip time, meaning the crew would have to start even earlier (and end later). This may impact duty hours, not to mention whether there would be enough revenue to justify the early and late runs.
 

Deadpool X

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There is nothing "wrong" with GO to Toronto and any service is better than none.

My point is that GO should have started as being London centered to provide service to her commuters first and not the other way around.
GO Transit was made to serve Toronto area, that's why it is Toronto centred. London can work on creating a new agency that is London focused. Expecting GO to do that is wrong. It's like asking why Air Canada does not serve Brazil to Peru routes.
 

Richard White

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Expecting GO to do that is wrong. It's like asking why Air Canada does not serve Brazil to Peru routes.

That's because Air Canada doesn't have permission to fly those routes as there is no agreement for them to do so.

This is in contrast to the European Common Aviation Area in the EU that permits countries to fly between two countries other than their own.

My point is that GO transit is run by the Government of Ontario which the City of London is a part of. If they want to create a hub in London that is their right.

They have the ability to operate anywhere in Ontario if they so choose. There is no need for a London specific organization to run transit.

GO will need to learn to adapt if it is to survive. This means creating hubs.
 

Deadpool X

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I do understand freedoms of the air but I guess my point got lost in the technicalities. GO is owned by the province but that does not mean GO was created to serve the entire province. You won't see GO trains going to Thunder Bay. If province wants to create a hub in London, sure, that expands GO's mandate. But I don't think they intend to do something like that at this time.
 

Richard White

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I do understand freedoms of the air but I guess my point got lost in the technicalities. GO is owned by the province but that does not mean GO was created to serve the entire province. You won't see GO trains going to Thunder Bay. If province wants to create a hub in London, sure, that expands GO's mandate. But I don't think they intend to do something like that at this time.

Southwestern Ontario is becoming heavily populated with the universities and everything else.

I have friends in Thunder Bay. If you don't have a car you're fooked. Train or no train.
 

Urban Sky

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GO Transit was made to serve Toronto area, that's why it is Toronto centred. London can work on creating a new agency that is London focused. Expecting GO to do that is wrong. It's like asking why Air Canada does not serve Brazil to Peru routes.
I do understand freedoms of the air but I guess my point got lost in the technicalities. GO is owned by the province but that does not mean GO was created to serve the entire province. You won't see GO trains going to Thunder Bay. If province wants to create a hub in London, sure, that expands GO's mandate. But I don't think they intend to do something like that at this time.
Or, for those who insist on hearing it straight from the horse's mouth:

About GO Transit​

GO Transit is the regional public transit service for the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area. GO’s distinctive green and white trains and buses serve a population of more than seven million across more than 11,000 square km stretching from Hamilton and Kitchener-Waterloo in the west to Newcastle and Peterborough in the east, and from Orangeville and Beaverton in the north to Niagara Falls in the south.

In operation since 1967, GO has evolved from a single train line along Lake Ontario’s shoreline into an extensive network of train lines and bus routes that carries more than 70 million passengers a year.

We connect with every municipal transit system in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area, including the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC).

For further discussions about the need for a commuter rail network centered on London, I recommend the "General Railway Discussions" thread...
 

EnviroTO

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With $30 service that takes 2h30min to Toronto on the Kitchener route the train would be very well utilized, especially with an airport connection. Pre-Covid the morning VIA train was very well utilized, companies with operations in London and Toronto had daily buses to Toronto, Robert Q had frequent airport service, etc. On the weekend something that got you to Toronto around noon and took you back at 9:30pm would also be well used.

A train that runs weekday only and takes 4 hours... I expect ridership you can count on fingers and toes.
 

ack

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Could they not put those dead head trips into service? The train needs to pass all of the stations anyways. It doesn't cost anything extra.
The westbound deadhead would leave Kitchener around 3am, not very rider-friendly.

Eastbound, the deadhead has to contend with VIA 87. With the planned revenue arrival at 20:17, it can only head back east once 87 arrives around 21:50. Maybe 21:35 or so once Guelph is fixed.

(If the westbound GO train was one train earlier, arriving around 19:40, the deadhead could leave around 20:05 instead and meet 87 at Kellys. Which would be more or less how 88 ran before it was cancelled, so it might attract some riders.)
 

DirectionNorth

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I do understand freedoms of the air but I guess my point got lost in the technicalities. GO is owned by the province but that does not mean GO was created to serve the entire province. You won't see GO trains going to Thunder Bay. If province wants to create a hub in London, sure, that expands GO's mandate. But I don't think they intend to do something like that at this time.
Ugh. As a former-non-Torontonian, I found this attitude infuriating. GO stands for Government of Ontario, not Greater Toronto Area.
Or, for those who insist on hearing it straight from the horse's mouth:


For further discussions about the need for a commuter rail network centered on London, I recommend the "General Railway Discussions" thread...
I think I once posted that GO's mandate can and should change (although the Northlander is a better service - that's a different discussion.
 

Northern Light

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Or, for those who insist on hearing it straight from the horse's mouth:


For further discussions about the need for a commuter rail network centered on London, I recommend the "General Railway Discussions" thread...

I have to respectfully disagree here. The idea that mandates are immutable is not one to which I subscribe.

GO didn't originally serve Barrie or K-W or Oshawa or Niagara;

The province made a point of imposing Presto on many non-GTA transit systems.
Notwithstanding that they hashed the project; the idea of province-wide interoperability was sound.

Why would we create a completely new agency to operate commuter rail when we already have one reasonably expert on that file?

I have long supported the notion of 'Hubs'; the idea of GO centred at Union, Pearson, Hamilton, Downtown K-W, Oshawa, London etc. makes a great deal of sense to me.

For clarity, that does not mean GO bi-level, L12s running here, there and everywhere.
It means integrated transit hubs, served by local carriers, GO in rail (DMU/Single-level/Bilevel, as may be appropriate), GO Bus, other Intercity Bus, and VIA/Long-haul rail.
The notion that we create a new agency for London, another for Hamilton, another for K-W, each w/their own HQ, Planning, Maintenance facilities etc. seems needlessly bureaucratic.

To me, this is no different that the need to change VIA's mandate, such that like Amtrak they work with the provinces to support additional service, with provincial subsidies as appropriate for services that support long-haul commutes, regular commutes (if there is no local commuter rail agency), and such services in support of tourism as a province may be willing to fund.

Agencies of the government should execute their business as it best serves the citizens who subsidize them.

Of course there are logical limits, I don't want GO Transit operating Hospitals! Nor does it make sense to have a national commuter rail agency.
But there is plenty of space between the absurd and the present-day service provision for logical expansion.
 
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lenaitch

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The "regional transportation area" as defined in the Metrolinx Act does not include London or its county, but that definition has an 'out' clause that allows for "any additional prescribed areas".

GO and Metrolinx were obviously set up to coordinate and provide commuter transportation in and around the GTA (it's called Metrolinx, not Ontlinx). If it wants to evolve into a provincial system, I think its structure and governance needs to change. Addressing the needs of the GTA, S/W Ontario, Eastern Ontario, etc. will not always align. Part of that evolution should necessarily include a discussion with VIA regarding service that is exclusively within the Province.
 

crs1026

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Of course there are logical limits, I don't want GO Transit operating Hospitals! Nor does it make sense to have a national commuter rail agency.
But there is plenty of space between the absurd and the present-day service provision for logical expansion.

It's definitely time where we should be seeing an expansion and investment in rail service of some sort to connect and manage growth of Ontario's larger urban communities outside the GTA.

But let's be practical. Where are the business cases for the ideas thrown out here? Are we seeing actual congestion or transport inefficiency at the moment? Are we serious about driving development into the communities we are suggesting?

I think we are getting close to a fantasy discussion... or we're very young and talking about what we might see in a very long lifetime. Or just drawing lines on maps.

- Paul
 

Urban Sky

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I have to respectfully disagree here. The idea that mandates are immutable is not one to which I subscribe.

GO didn't originally serve Barrie or K-W or Oshawa or Niagara;

[...]
I never argued that Metrolinx' mandate is set in stone, with the opposite being manifest by its slow but steady transition from traditional Commuter Rail (refer to the current schedules of the Milton and Richmond Hill lines) towards Regional Express (refer to the current schedules of the Lakeshore service east of Aldershot and of the UP Express).

However, to argue that GO should create in London its second hub for its rail operations before even a single passenger has boarded a GO bus or train in that city is ludicrous and embodies exactly the kind of fantasy discussion towards which @crs1026 sees this discussion heading...

Therefore, the choice faced by Londoners and their representatives today is the following: to embrace that GO has started to drag their city into their orbit and to encourage a deeper integration with the GTHA - or to set up their own transit agency...
 
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