GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx

[Streety McCarface]

Within the last week or so, somebody posted a map - somewhere in the forum - of the track ownership of the GO Transit network... And I cannot seem to find my way back to it. I should have bookmarked it.

I would really appreciate it if someone can reply with the link to the post. Thanks in advance!

This one?

 

[ssiguy2]

steveintoronto...… your argument that places in France continue to expand their catenary networks is not relevant to Toronto. This is Europe and their infrastructure is completely different from ours. There is not a single significant city in Europe that doesn`t have some form of electrical rail service. In other words they maybe expanding their system with catenary but in their case it makes a lot of sense to do so. Their INDIVIDUAL lines may not yet be electrified but they already have much of the core infrastructure in place such as having their entire Union/Central station completely catenary served, have the needed electrical substructures including substations, have their catenary rail car maintenance/storage centres built, trained staff for their upkeep and operation, and they have key routes electrified so that many of the smaller non-electrified section/s branch lines need only to get catenary until meet the main line.

Toronto has absolutely none of the above infrastructure in place, absolutely none. If Toronto, had some of this social and physical infrastructure in place and simply wanted to bring it to new lines and extend other then it would make perfect sense to do so but Toronto has no more catenary infrastructure built in the entire GTA than you or I do in our living rooms.

When new technologies emerge and they begin to seem viable, transit agencies should not embrace them for the sole reason of being the new kid on the block, or just to give it a whirl and see how it works. Conversely, that also doesn`t mean that new technologies should be written off as a fool`s errand, or a waste of taxpayer dollars having planners and politicians screaming into the night. Decisions should be knowledged based without prejudice or preconceived ideas of what is best to serve travelling public and respect citizens who are footing the bill.

 

[steveintoronto]

It’s not clear you want to contrast Ontario unfavourably with SA. The entire state lost power in a heatwave the summer before last.

I'm going to answer this again, since reading in depth on South Australia last night.

A refresher on their new "right of centre" government:

[...]
(Events) should also dispel worries that a change in local government earlier this year might have affected the appetite for energy storage investments. In March elections, the Australian Labor Party was thrown out after 16 years in power.
It was replaced by the center-right Liberal Party of Australia, which under former Prime Minister Tony Abbott took a downbeat stance on renewables.

However, in an interview published in RenewEconomy in May, South Australian energy minister Dan van Holst Pellekaan pledged to continue supporting the state’s move toward green energy.
“We are going to take the very best of what the former government had to offer in this space, we’re going to reject the mistakes that they made, and improve on what they had to offer,” he said.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/arti...ia-reaffirms-its-love-for-tesla-big-batteries

South Australia has expensive electricity, far higher than Ontario's, which contrary to knee-jerk reactionary rightist's claims, is cheap by world standards (even by North Am standards, it's 'middle of the pack'):

Electricity prices

The 2013 South Australian Electricity Report noted that increases in prices were "largely driven by transmission and distribution network price increases".[43] In contrast, the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) has noted that the South Australian wholesale prices are lower than they have been since the start of the national electricity market, and that the wind “tends to depress the South Australian regional prices”.[44] The Government stated that the price increase due to the Carbon Tax was approximately half of that experienced by other states, due to the high installed capacity of wind and gas-fired generation.[45]

Following the 2016 South Australian blackout, the South Australian government increased its ministerial powers to direct energy corporations in times of peak demand.[46]

It was claimed in 2017 that South Australia had the most expensive electricity in the world [47]
[...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_South_Australia

And yet!

New electrified trains

South Australia’s public transport system is undergoing a major overhaul to transform it into a state-of-the-art, modern and environmentally friendly system providing faster, more frequent and efficient services for commuters.
The first rail car of Adelaide's first permanently coupled three-car electric train was delivered on 19 July 2013 from Bombardier Transportation Australia in Dandenong Victoria.

https://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/RR/rail_revitalisation/new_trains_and_trams

Designed specifically for the electrification of Adelaide’s metropolitan passenger rail network, the A-City 25kV EMUs combine strong technical pedigree with state of the art technology and bold styling. The A-City brings a new level of quality, comfort, and reliability to the people of Adelaide.

This Australian Good Design Award winning train was built locally to meet the harsh conditions of South Australia, the A-City combines two of Australia’s best rail vehicles, known for their performance and reliability - the Perth ‘B’ Series EMU and the Good Design Award winning VLocity DMU. From these proven platforms, all characteristics have been optimised for Adelaide conditions, resulting in a vehicle that is safe, stylish, and comfortable.

These high capacity trains feature a wide body with a slim side wall construction, thereby maximising interior space. Operating primarily as a permanently coupled three car set, a consist of six cars may be readily formed by the coupling of two sets.

Project summary:

Total Fleet Size ordered: 66 carriages
As a turnkey supplier, Bombardier’s scope includes the design, build, delivery and maintenance of the A-City EMU trains project
Bombardier has achieved 68%+ local content on the E-Class Trams Project
Electric trains commenced passenger services from Adelaide to Seaford on 23 February 2014, supplemented by the existing diesel fleet. Electric trains began regular operation on the Tonsley line on a regular basis the following year.
A total of 22 permanently-coupled three car sets are currently in use on the network.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:bJULjH2EWhcJ:https://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/projects/project.emu-adelaide-australia.html?f-region=middle-east-and-africa+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=ubuntu

And note the "25kV EMUs"...the current supply planned for GO (It's the modern int'l standard). This is unusual for Oz, which typically uses 1500 VDC on the eastern systems (which continues to be the newer LRT standard, Ottawa using it), but "right of centre" South Australia pushes ahead with this and more while Ontario sinks back to the Neanderthal past. Turns out Ford was for "Highways, highways, highways" all along.

I'm just so shocked...

 

[lenaitch]

Within the last week or so, somebody posted a map - somewhere in the forum - of the track ownership of the GO Transit network... And I cannot seem to find my way back to it. I should have bookmarked it.

I would really appreciate it if someone can reply with the link to the post. Thanks in advance!

I remember that as well and think I contributed a map, but can't recall where it was. As an alternative, try this >> https://rac.jmaponline.net/canadianrailatlas/ << and zoom in to your heart's content.

Edit: Found it. It was in the Pickering Airport thread. He's a link to the map I posted there. http://www.trainweb.org/railsintoronto/bigmap.html (it's a little dated).

 

[steveintoronto]

steveintoronto...… your argument that places in France continue to expand their catenary networks is not relevant to Toronto. This is Europe and their infrastructure is completely different from ours.

Then by your measure, whatever it is, Hydrail is just as 'irrelevant'.

Conversely, that also doesn`t mean that new technologies should be written off as a fool`s errand, or a waste of taxpayer dollars having planners and politicians screaming into the night.

Hyperbole much? I'm on record, as are others, as stating it might have utility on peripheral branch lines. I suggest you read back.

And why do we have to repeat tests that various European operators are doing now? I detailed how Ottawa would be the best host for testing iLints. You agreed!

What upsets you about using the *de-facto int'l standard* for electric rail operation? New catenary is being erected around the globe, and much more is planned to be, many installations stand-alone. I've posted some prior. That's pages or reference up at Google.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=cate...47j0j7&client=ubuntu&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Meantime, as detailed prior:

Electrification of Adelaide's rail network forms part of the State Government's unprecedented and ongoing investment in public transport. Together with the delivery of Australia's most modern new train fleet, an electrified network will result in a state of the art, environmentally friendly and efficient train service. The Seaford line was the first line to be electrified, opening to passenger services on 23 February 2014.

The Tonsley line was electrified on 2 May 2014, with electric passenger services commencing later in the year with the arrival of sufficient electric trains. The Belair line between Goodwood and Adelaide Railway Station was electrified on 3 May 2014, to allow for critical operational flexibility for Adelaide's electric passenger services. Early works have been undertaken on the electrification of the Gawler line with works continuing in 2017-18, initially from Adelaide to Salisbury.

https://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/electrification

 

[ssiguy2]

I have absolutely no problems with catenary with the exception of the visual pollution of endless ugly overhead wires and poles. It SA example it makes perfect sense to continue it's catenary expansion as it has already begun and much of the core infrastructure is in place. Since Adelaide started building it's electrification thou, hydrogen rail has arrived and has the ability to be a real paradigm shift in rail propulsion and so far the results from Germany are excellent.

Toronto hasn't even started digging for electrification yet little alone built anything so it's starting from scratch. If there are viable alternatives {and no I'm not saying hydrogen is the best option nor am I saying it's not} then they should be explored and if successful in trial, embraced. Alstom would give it's left-nut to get Toronto to try it's new system and would maintain with loving care to make sure it exceeds expectations as NA will be the biggest potential market and Toronto is NA's second largest transit system so Alstom would love that kind of exposure.

Even if hydrail doesn't work there are other alternative that may be cheaper such as battery trains with RailBaar at stations saving the cost of and visual pollution of wiring and having far less upkeep and being less susceptible to weather issues.

Of course this back and forth is ultimately useless until Metrolinx can make a decision as to whether they will be running single or double level EMUs. It`s been 4 years and they still haven`t got a clue meanwhile Montreal`s REM steams ahead.

 

[steveintoronto]

meanwhile Montreal`s REM steams ahead

Yeah, with catenary.

 

[ssiguy2]

Which of course makes perfect sense as the backbone of the system will be using the current fully electrified 30km Deux-Montagnes line which includes the electrified Mont Royal tunnel and Gare Central. It's an updating and expansion of a currently running electrified commuter rail line. This is opposed to Toronto where the only thing electric in the current 200 km RER system are the lights.

 

[cplchanb]

Beggars cant be choosers guys....we have nothing atm and can I'll afford any extravagant forms of electrification. Why then are we debating and fueling disunity by throwing in ideas that simply we cant afford both in time, resources and money??? Sure it's nice to have battery powered or hydrail but at this time we need to get an electric network up asap at the most cost effective price. Catenary is a tried and proven method that is still 100% relevant today and will still be here 100 years from now with the exception of prob japan, germany or China with their maglev. Let's get something on the rails before we debate over exotic and prototypical methods

 

[p_xavier]

Which of course makes perfect sense as the backbone of the system will be using the current fully electrified 30km Deux-Montagnes line which includes the electrified Mont Royal tunnel and Gare Central. It's an updating and expansion of a currently running electrified commuter rail line. This is opposed to Toronto where the only thing electric in the current 200 km RER system are the lights.

The entire electric system of the Deux-Montagnes line will be scrapped and be replaced with a 1500V DC system for the REM.

 

[steveintoronto]

The entire electric system of the Deux-Montagnes line will be scrapped and be replaced with a 1500V DC system for the REM.

Thank you, you saved me having to point out the horror of the REM reaming. Anyone who follows the VIA HFR situation knows this only too well. And this only a few decades after the upgrading of the Deux Montagnes line to 25kV AC.

 

[p_xavier]

Thank you, you saved me having to point out the horror of the REM reaming. Anyone who follows the VIA HFR situation knows this only too well. And this only a few decades after the upgrading of the Deux Montagnes line to 25kV AC.

Even with compatible power or bi-current VIA trains, the REM stations would be too narrow to accomodate locomotives and there's no place for a gauntlet track since the station pillars are between the tracks.

 

[steveintoronto]

Even with compatible power or bi-current VIA trains, the REM stations would be too narrow to accomodate locomotives

Welcome to the UT forums! You are obviously up on this subject detail, which is vital to the VIA string here. VIA are claiming (perhaps hopelessly) that HFR EMUs could accommodate the same loading gauge as needed for REM compatibility, at least through the Mount Royal Tunnel. The discussion has been absent in the news of late though.

As that HFR discussion pertains to this string though, Metrolinx are accommodating the lower Don River section of track into Union as being future electrified. Ostensibly HFR will use the Don Branch to attain that. HFR and future GO electrification, if and when both happen, will be totally compatible.

 

[p_xavier]

Welcome to the UT forums! You are obviously up on this subject detail, which is vital to the VIA string here. VIA are claiming (perhaps hopelessly) that HFR EMUs could accommodate the same loading gauge as needed for REM compatibility, at least through the Mount Royal Tunnel. The discussion has been absent in the news of late though.

Thanks! I've been lurking for many years. I did work as a transit consultant about 10 years ago for the Ottawa LRT and Transit City. I might not be the most knowledgeable in the field anymore but I do have an interest.

 

[crs1026]

^ While it’s undoubtedly true that VIA and REM will not be compatible over the length of REM, is it known that the short stretch through the Mount Royal tunnel and north to where the line to Quebec City, which currently handles AMT, won’t be built to handle both?

- Paul