EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
And it's been said that they aren't going to be converted because it's too expensive to do it and it would be cheaper to buy new ones at this point instead.
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GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx
- Thread starter innsertnamehere
- Start date
EnviroTO
Senior Member
In which case the UP Express fleet is likely to be the first new EMUs purchased because putting an electric locomotive on the east end of those train sets would new ridiculous.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
The Nippon Sharyos are diesel-hydraulic. They aren't even diesel-electric like most other diesel trains. I know they claimed that they could be easily converted to EMUs since that's what Metrolinx asked for, but I find it hard to believe. An easy-to-convert DMU would be like the Stadler FLIRT DMU, which is literally an EMU with a generator car.
The reason they wouldn't buy those is the same as the reason they wouldn't convert the Nippon Sharyos. Their floor height is completely wrong for Metrolinx's planned 610mm platforms. I think the best bet for the MR90s would be the CT Rail South Shore Line, since my understanding is that they didn't order enough Kawasaki M8 EMUs to fully convert the line to electric operations.
Yes they will be running diesel trains between the electric trains.
No this will not negatively impact speed or frequency of the electric trains, because those diesels will almost certainly be making limited stops through the shared segment. It's actually the speed and frequency of (local) electric trains which will be limiting the speed of the (express) diesel trains.
smallspy
Senior Member
Nitpick: they're not diesel-hydraulic. They aren't even diesel-hydrostatic, which is the term you were actually looking for.
They use a 6-speed transmission not unlike that used in a tractor-trailer. They are considered diesel-mechanical.
Dan
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Is Wikipedia incorrect? Does the Nippon Sharyo DMU have a physical clutch (not a torque converter)?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippon_Sharyo_DMU
robmausser
Senior Member
The Nippon Sharyos do NOT have electric motors. Believe it or not they are technically big Rail Buses. They literally have the diesel motor connected to the wheels by a 6 speed automatic transmission.
The plan was to swap the diesel engines out for an electric motor, but not only was it deemed too expensive versus just getting new trains, Nippon Sharyo has left the North American market and is no longer willing to do it. (You could always hire someone else to do it but i'd imagine it would not be the best idea considering it was already deemed too expensive)
robmausser
Senior Member
The Toronto Nippons dont have hydraulic transmission. The SMART ones in California do. For some reason Metrolinx opted for the mechanical gearbox version.
Nippon Sharyo FRA DMU
The Nippon Sharyo FRA DMU is, as its name implies, an FRA (US Federal Railroad Administration) compliant Diesel Multiple Unit (DMU) built for both the Sonoma-Marin Area Rail Transit (SMART) in California and Metrolinx (UP Express) in Ontario, Canada. According to Nippon Sharyo, these DMUs are...
locomotive.fandom.com
mind_the_gap
Active Member
Part of me really wishes DB will insist on branding the frequent services as GO REX (Regional EXpress rail). It would provide the same kind assurance you would expect from seeing a green S-Bahn circle in Germany, in knowing that you won’t have to wait more than 15/20/30 minutes for a train. With GO moving to much more frequent operations, just seeing a GO logo won’t mean the same thing as it has before, and it will become more important to distinguish the frequent services from the infrequent services.
robmausser
Senior Member
They will definitely have to brand it something. But if the conservatives are in power when that decision is made, it won't be GO RER, it will be whatever they want to call it, as GO RER was the liberals naming.
I like GO REX though because it has Toronto Raptors vibes (although a T Rex is not a Raptor, they are both dinosaurs get off my back already)
TRONto
Active Member
afransen
Senior Member
Apparently a T Rex is not even a T Rex... the thinking now is that T Rex is actually several different species. Goes to show how little we know about dinosaurs from the fossil record.
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reaperexpress
Senior Member
I like the sound of GO "REX" Regional Express, but I wouldn't use it for GO's frequent local services because they are specifically the service type which is not express, and "Regional Express" is already a fairly widespread term in Europe, referring to a completely different type of service.
From slowest (most stops) to fastest (fewest stops), the main service types in German-speaking countries tend to be something like:
S-Bahn
Regional
Regional Express
Intercity
Intercity Express
S-Bahn lines are of course the frequent local services. Regional Express lines are much faster, but they are not necessarily very frequent (1-2 trains per hour).
When I was in the Rhein-Ruhr region, my Verkehrsverbund Rhein-Ruhr day pass was valid on all public transport from local buses all the way up to Regional Express trains. But riding Intercity or Intercity Express trains would have required actually purchasing a DB ticket. This seems quite similar to how Metrolinx is (supposedly) going to integrate fares from local buses al the way up to GO trains, but VIA would still remain separate.
Here is how those terms could fit onto some hypothetical stopping patterns in the Kitchener corridor:
REX could work as a name for the faster express GO services, similar to how "RE" is used in Europe.
From slowest (most stops) to fastest (fewest stops), the main service types in German-speaking countries tend to be something like:
S-Bahn
Regional
Regional Express
Intercity
Intercity Express
S-Bahn lines are of course the frequent local services. Regional Express lines are much faster, but they are not necessarily very frequent (1-2 trains per hour).
When I was in the Rhein-Ruhr region, my Verkehrsverbund Rhein-Ruhr day pass was valid on all public transport from local buses all the way up to Regional Express trains. But riding Intercity or Intercity Express trains would have required actually purchasing a DB ticket. This seems quite similar to how Metrolinx is (supposedly) going to integrate fares from local buses al the way up to GO trains, but VIA would still remain separate.
Here is how those terms could fit onto some hypothetical stopping patterns in the Kitchener corridor:
REX could work as a name for the faster express GO services, similar to how "RE" is used in Europe.
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nfitz
Superstar
I'm not giving him the hits. Some of his comments have been really naïve - and if you challenge him on something, he doesn't think about it, he just spews.
smallspy
Senior Member
Yes, Wikipedia is incorrect.
The most common transmission used with the QSK-19R is a Voith T312bre hydrostatic transmission. This is used in quite literally thousands of railcars around the planet.
For whatever reason, someone spec'd the UPX equipment with a ZF 6AP2500R, which is a 6-speed automatic transmission. This isn't an uncommon transmission, but I can't find any other applications where it's been mated to the same Cummins engine.
Dan
tayser
Active Member
Swapping out diesel locos for electric ones as part of this upgrade seems to be on the money/prudent to kick this whole thing off.
I'm not entirely familiar with the GO system but if it's anything like the big suburban networks in Australia, certain cohorts of cars / sets will be older than others - giving operators predictable timeframes for major refurb packages or total renewal/train changes.
In Melbourne / Sydney, roughly every 10 years, the respective state government will do an order for a new fleet - broadly speaking, trains have a 30-40 year lifetime and then get replaced. Here in Melbourne within 10 years we'll have done the first 40 year cycle of this order-every-10-years pattern (our 1980s era Comeng trains will disappear from the network once the second generation of 2000s-era X'traps are rolled out to specific lines within the next 5-10 years).
Likewise, we're seeing a pattern of life-extension to the sub-fleets when they hit their 10, 20 or 30 year anniversaries.
The mention of 25 years of refurb/maintenance baked into the GO contract is instructive - you could be forgiven for thinking that all might be front-loaded (in prep for new services) but that'll probably be like here - predictable upgrades over time. It'd just be interesting to know if there's anything else baked in like introducing a new fleet type at some point down the line.
I'm not entirely familiar with the GO system but if it's anything like the big suburban networks in Australia, certain cohorts of cars / sets will be older than others - giving operators predictable timeframes for major refurb packages or total renewal/train changes.
In Melbourne / Sydney, roughly every 10 years, the respective state government will do an order for a new fleet - broadly speaking, trains have a 30-40 year lifetime and then get replaced. Here in Melbourne within 10 years we'll have done the first 40 year cycle of this order-every-10-years pattern (our 1980s era Comeng trains will disappear from the network once the second generation of 2000s-era X'traps are rolled out to specific lines within the next 5-10 years).
Likewise, we're seeing a pattern of life-extension to the sub-fleets when they hit their 10, 20 or 30 year anniversaries.
The mention of 25 years of refurb/maintenance baked into the GO contract is instructive - you could be forgiven for thinking that all might be front-loaded (in prep for new services) but that'll probably be like here - predictable upgrades over time. It'd just be interesting to know if there's anything else baked in like introducing a new fleet type at some point down the line.