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GO Transit Electrification (Metrolinx, Proposed)

JSF-1

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And instead of catenary, electrfy via Third Rail. That way, TTC subway vehicles can finally run on GO tracks. It also mean Ford's dream for a subway to Pickering can finally be realized.
It sounds funny but that's how it works in Japan. Realistically though there is no chance of that happening with the network as it currently is. That's not to say we can't plan future subway line with interlined operations in mind; I am just not going to hold my breath with it happening since it would require some real outside the box thinking for us North American folk (and I wouldn't be surpirised if no one at the TTC or even Metrolinx is aware that it is something done in some parts of the world; even if that's just me being cynical about the people in charge of our transit networks). I guess any idea of interlined operation died with the City blocking the inerturban lines from entering Toronto back in the early 1900's due to the city despising Sir William Mackenzie who just happened to own every interurban in Toronto at the time. Its not really that new an idea either in North America when you consider way back in the day the North Shore Railway was interlined with the Chicago L giving people a one seat ride from Downtown Chicago to Downtown Milwaukee.
 

Allandale25

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"The biggest project in the provincial pipeline is the $17-billion GO Transit Expansion program, which will require adding more than 200 kilometres of track and electrifying portions of the regional rail network, and is intended to transform GO’s rush hour commuter lines into an all-day service."

"Contractors charging extra could also make it harder to get transit built on time, because if the province doesn’t get enough bids that come in on budget, it can be forced to redesign its procurement.

Something like that scenario appears to have played out with GO Expansion, after contractors initially balked at the risk involved in its procurement. Although work was supposed to be substantially complete by 2025, this week an IO spokesperson wouldn’t confirm that date. Metrolinx and IO maintain GO Expansion is on track.

Verster, the Metrolinx CEO, said his agency has listened to criticism and is moving away from traditional P3s to contract models that are less risky for builders. The Building Transit Faster Act passed by the Ontario government last year is also intended to reduce regulatory hurdles that can stall contractors’ work."
 

generalcanada

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theres the part about Metrolinx and their p3's.

But this one is also kinda interesting

BuildForce Canada, an industry organization that monitors the construction labour market, estimates that over the next 10 years more than 92,000 workers in Ontario’s construction sector will retire, the equivalent of 21 per cent of the workforce.
In order to replace retirees and keep up with anticipated demand, the industry will need to hire and train more than 116,000 workers in the next 10 years. The sector is on track to bring in about 80,000 younger workers during that time, but that would still leave the province about 31,000 short.
Didnt Phil Verster/metrolinx do a talk like a year ago about how the labour market might be limited with all the projects goin on at once?
 

cplchanb

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theres the part about Metrolinx and their p3's.

But this one is also kinda interesting



Didnt Phil Verster/metrolinx do a talk like a year ago about how the labour market might be limited with all the projects goin on at once?
I did note that as well. I recall seeing a lot of ads on newpapers highlighting this issue. Unfortunately its the product of our own making as we spent 2 generations
stigmatising trade jobs as inferior to white collar jobs. As such we pushed our children to get degrees in order to be purportedly in a "higher standing in society". The irony is that
these university educated kids cant land a job, and trades are desperate to pay big bucks to anyone they can find to replace their retiring vets.
 

ssiguy2

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There is absolutely no reason why they couldn't electrify the entire 200km within 2 years at the very most. ML saying otherwise is just lying and trying to cover up the ineptitude. If they found workers to build Garage Mahals then they can find them for electrification. Of course this wouldn't be an issue if they would have done what every other transit system on the planet would do by putting up the pole while constructing the stations and track they have twinned at the same time.
 

tsm1072

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There is absolutely no reason why they couldn't electrify the entire 200km within 2 years at the very most. ML saying otherwise is just lying and trying to cover up the ineptitude. If they found workers to build Garage Mahals then they can find them for electrification. Of course this wouldn't be an issue if they would have done what every other transit system on the planet would do by putting up the pole while constructing the stations and track they have twinned at the same time.
They absolutely could, but it's not electrification that is bringing better service. They need to finish double tracking and quad tracking corridors, upgrading level crossings, creating grade separations, expanding stations, and many other small infrastructure improvements before they can increase service levels. At that point new trainsets and electrification will make sense.

There has already been evidence posted of new infrastructure being built to support poles being added in the future. But why add they if you aren't going to use them for 5 years.
 

ssiguy2

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Interesting update from Germany. Last week the rail transit agency for the very populace Rhein/Ruhr Valley announced that it is buying 60 battery vehicles to run on it's huge and very busy network to electrify the entire rail corridor system within the next few years. The trains will have between 140 and 160 seats each and will have a top speed of 140km/hr and have a catenary-free range of 120km.

The trains will be manufactured by SNL of Spain and will be part of the "Civity" suburban rail vehicles. Nearly all major world train manufacturers now supply battery trains as part of their standard offerings.
 

smallspy

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There is absolutely no reason why they couldn't electrify the entire 200km within 2 years at the very most. ML saying otherwise is just lying and trying to cover up the ineptitude. If they found workers to build Garage Mahals then they can find them for electrification. Of course this wouldn't be an issue if they would have done what every other transit system on the planet would do by putting up the pole while constructing the stations and track they have twinned at the same time.
To suggest this is to be entirely ignorant of the realities of the construction world.

It is a hell of a lot harder to build within an active rail corridor - and keep it running smoothly, I might add - than it is to build new structures outside of that corridor.

To build in an active rail corridor, you need specially trained crews, work blocks with coordination with the Rail Traffic Controllers, flagging, special mechanical equipment.....and the list goes on. There are a limited number of companies that have the training and certification required to do this, and so there is a premium cost to it. Right now, those companies are in extremely high demand.

To build a new station outside of the corridor, until it comes time to build the structures within the rail corridor - where you then need these special crews - you only need a "regular" construction team. Those are much easier and much more plentiful to find. (Although currently also in short supply.)

(Yes, there are sometimes ways around some of the requirements - see the work being done on the grade separation of the Newmarket Sub over CP's North Toronto Sub - but that kind of stuff isn't applicable to electrifying the lines. And it should be pretty obvious why that is.)

And spoiler alert: electrification will require construction almost entirely within the corridor.

Dan
 

ssiguy2

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I'm curious..............Who of you think that ML will go with a battery train system with catenary recharging at each station or a core area of 100km and how many think they will go with 100% catenary?
 

ARG1

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I'm curious..............Who of you think that ML will go with a battery train system with catenary recharging at each station or a core area of 100km and how many think they will go with 100% catenary?
They're almost certainly going with 100% catenary, with a slight possibility of batter trains on the Kitchener Line if the section between Georgetown and Kitchener are electrified without the section between Georgetown and Bramalea - but even then they're probably going to use Dual-Mode Locomotives there.
 

ssiguy2

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I hope they have the common sense to at least incorporate some battery power like being able to go just 30 or 40 km on battery.

The advantages are clear. This would mean that any disruption in the power supply including problems with the wiring would not bring the train to a least make it to the next station and possibly allow the train to complete it's run to it's terminus station. Also it would allow for any future electric service to be extended {ie Bur to Ham} without the need for any new infrastructure.
 

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