GO studies Bolton rail service

[smallspy]

Neither CP nor CN have said definitively “No, not gonna happen, stay off our tracks” to any recent commuter proposal for use of their lines in dense urban areas.

- Paul

That is right, they have never explicitly said "no, we won't allow this". Both organizations are far too politically savvy to do that.

But they've both quoted multiple organizations a proverbial "go away" price many, many times to schemes that they feel would not benefit them.

Dan

 

[crs1026]

That is right, they have never explicitly said "no, we won't allow this". Both organizations are far too politically savvy to do that.

But they've both quoted multiple organizations a proverbial "go away" price many, many times to schemes that they feel would not benefit them.

Dan

Indeed.... they unashamedly highball to an atrocious degree..... and hope and pray that government wouldn't just swallow hard and pay up. Or take them to court (CTA, actually) and ask them to defend this highballed figure. Or begin a negotiation.

In theory the law does give agencies the right to challenge the quote. In practice it's a slim-hope proposition. One doesn't ask the question unless one can accept the answer.

In the end, it's negotiation, just like Kijiji and auto sales. Is it worth my time to dicker, or will I just drop the idea?

- Paul

 

[allengeorge]

In the end, it's negotiation, just like Kijiji and auto sales. Is it worth my time to dicker, or will I just drop the idea?

In the mean time, transit suffers - which is why you have comments about how CP/CN are being obstructive.

PS. Coming up with an absurdly high number as a starting point is not a great way to start any negotiation.

 

[crs1026]

PS. Coming up with an absurdly high number as a starting point is not a great way to start any negotiation.

Not when a third party might actually award that number, or one close to it.

I agree that the process as laid out in law unfairly encourages CN/CP to ask a ridiculous amount…but that’s the law, not the negotiating strategy at fault. They would be foolish not to.

- Paul

PS: Historical digression - While President, Richard Nixon was a fan of “final offer selection” on many dispute processes including labour arbitrations, as a way of disincenting extreme positions. Nixon was a crook, but a shrewd one.

 

[kamira51]

Saw this on my way home from work.

It's nice to see Caledon is really pushing for this.

 

[Nomad_87]

Saw this on my way home from work.
View attachment 349809

It's nice to see Caledon is really pushing for this.

I do certainly hope their efforts don’t go unnoticed. The Bolton Line is the last major rail line missing in the GTA

 

[nfitz]

I do certainly hope their efforts don’t go unnoticed.

I could drive past that sign 100 times and not realize that it's related to GO Trains. And I'm aware of the long-range transportation plan! I doubt most will put 2+2 together. It's too subtle.

The Bolton Line is the last major rail line missing in the GTA

Well other than the Peterborough line. I wonder what demand would look like on the CP mainline, eastwards to Pickering.

 

[Nomad_87]

I could drive past that sign 100 times and not realize that it's related to GO Trains. And I'm aware of the long-range transportation plan! I doubt most will put 2+2 together. It's too subtle.

Well other than the Peterborough line. I wonder what demand would look like on the CP mainline, eastwards to Pickering.

The big difference between Bolton and Peterborough is there’s not much between Peterborough and Toronto and there will never be much thanks to the Greenbelt. Meanwhile that end of Vaughan has seen some decent growth

 

[nfitz]

The big difference between Bolton and Peterborough is there’s not much between Peterborough and Toronto and there will never be much thanks to the Greenbelt. Meanwhile that end of Vaughan has seen some decent growth

I was thinking more of servicing Scarborough and southwest Markham. Even interchanging with the Eglinton and Ontario lines. I'd assume VIA would provide the service east of Markham. The CP mainline provides opportunities in north Pickering, north Ajax, better options Whitby and joining the planned stations in Oshawa.

If they upgrade the CP line to Milton as the federal Liberals have promised, it also raised an option of running GO up the Orangeville line as far as Mayfield Road, which could be well used.

 

[robmausser]

The big difference between Bolton and Peterborough is there’s not much between Peterborough and Toronto and there will never be much thanks to the Greenbelt. Meanwhile that end of Vaughan has seen some decent growth

Also Peterborough will have HFR. I'm sure VIA will offer its commuter rail pass on HFR.

Looking at the 4 hour trip for GO from London, I think VIA HFR will be a much better choice for Peterborough.

 

[Nomad_87]

Also Peterborough will have HFR. I'm sure VIA will offer its commuter rail pass on HFR.

Looking at the 4 hour trip for GO from London, I think VIA HFR will be a much better choice for Peterborough.

To be fair, London GO will be a lot better with track upgrades. But it’s much easier to justify the upgrades on the Guelph sub since it’s a main line connecting the 4th largest city (if you don’t count any of Toronto’s suburbs) in the province as well as Stratford, St. Mary’s and New Hamburg to Toronto and Waterloo Region. The Havelock sub is entirely nothing, the type of upgrades needed to make Peterborough GO service usable isn’t feasible. VIA would be much better

 

[crs1026]

Did anyone bother to check out the letsgocaledon.ca website ? It’s not ML, but rather an initiative to change the Official Plan for Caledon, looking for GO service but in the context of added development.

#mooserailcomestothegta

#byebyefarmland

- Paul

 

[DirectionNorth]

Did anyone bother to check out the letsgocaledon.ca website ? It’s not ML, but rather an initiative to change the Official Plan for Caledon, looking for GO service but in the context of added development.

#mooserailcomestothegta

#byebyefarmland

- Paul

Land Acknowledgement​

We acknowledge that this project is on the traditional and ancestral territory of many nations including the Anishinabek (Ojibway), Huron-Wendat, Haudenosaunee, Metis, and the Mississaugas of the Credit. We also recognize the enduring presence of all First Nations peoples. These lands, which now form the Town of Caledon, are part of the Treaty Lands between the Crown and the Mississaugas of the Credit.

From https://www.letsgocaledon.ca/

Because nothing says respecting FN lands like paving it over for more suburban sh*tholes!

The Future is Now​

Caledon Station is a new community defined by nature and designed for neighbourhood. Master planned with a mix of uses, this community will connect residents to over 75 acres of parks, ponds, trails and cycle-friendly pathways – all anchored by a dynamic hub with shops, restaurants, workplaces, and the proposed Caledon GO Station.

Where nothing says the future like a more car-centric sprawl with nominal pedestrian and transit facilities!


A GO spur/line using the MacTier sub is fine, but it needs:

• To be RER from the beginning - frequent service all day on dedicated tracks using the ROW
• To stop at Rutherford, to prevent Caledon from becoming the next Brampton
• More space on the ROW, which there isn't. LOL.

I maintain my stance that using the OBRY within Brampton as an urban rapid transit line would provide more benefits.

 

[ARG1]

A GO spur/line using the MacTier sub is fine, but it needs:

• To be RER from the beginning - frequent service all day on dedicated tracks using the ROW

The bolton line "NEEDS" this?
While a bolton RER service that provides GO train access to western york region is fine and all, I wouldn't say it necessarily NEEDS RER. Furthermore this is a CP owned sub and the challenges to make this an RER line are basically the same as on the Milton Line, and considering how much of a headache turning that line into RER is, Bolton isn't going to get it anytime soon.

• To stop at Rutherford, to prevent Caledon from becoming the next Brampton

...






wot?

The area around Rutherford is about as developed as Bolton, if not less. If we assume that the GO train brings a lot of suburban development, why would it be ok to develop the stretch along Rutherford and not Bolton?
Finally the point of the Bolton Line should be to connect more communities to the rail network, and improve transit throughout the network. If we want to reduce the amount of sprawl, that should be done outside of rail expansion through strong greenbelt coverage and tighter zoning laws. We shouldn't say "these people don't deserve a train because I don't want there to be more people here".

• More space on the ROW, which there isn't. LOL.

This really just comes down to how many slots CP wants to share really. If CP is willing to offer some slots, then not there is no need for this.

I maintain my stance that using the OBRY within Brampton as an urban rapid transit line would provide more benefits.

Since when was this a competition or some sort of exclusivity deal where you can only have one or the other? Turning OBRY into a trillium line style DMU service? That's an absolutely brilliant idea (and the fact that Brampton wants to rip up the OBRY for a bloody trail is absolutely boneheaded and a strong representation of everything wrong with Brampton's leadership atm), but how does that in any way preclude a Bolton Line and vice versa?

 

[DirectionNorth]

The bolton line "NEEDS" this?

I hate using the "need" word. I was being somewhat sarcastic in that post.

While a bolton RER service that provides GO train access to western york region is fine and all, I wouldn't say it necessarily NEEDS RER. Furthermore this is a CP owned sub and the challenges to make this an RER line are basically the same as on the Milton Line, and considering how much of a headache turning that line into RER is, Bolton isn't going to get it anytime soon.

...






wot?

The area around Rutherford is about as developed as Bolton, if not less. If we assume that the GO train brings a lot of suburban development, why would it be ok to develop the stretch along Rutherford and not Bolton?
Finally the point of the Bolton Line should be to connect more communities to the rail network, and improve transit throughout the network. If we want to reduce the amount of sprawl, that should be done outside of rail expansion through strong greenbelt coverage and tighter zoning laws. We shouldn't say "these people don't deserve a train because I don't want there to be more people here".

This really just comes down to how many slots CP wants to share really. If CP is willing to offer some slots, then not there is no need for this.

I was being half-sarcastic. I'm not opposed to Bolton GO, but it's low on my personal fantasy priority list. Leaving it at Rutherford would require the step of expanding the Greenbelt. Personally, I would rather use that money on some other GO expansion. Going north of Steeles would create sprawl, the area south of Steeles will be well served by Finch West and Woodbine GO.