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GO Bloor station, Milton line platform (or lack thereof)

dowlingm

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is there a technical limitation precluding GO from putting a platform on the Milton line at Bloor?
 

drum118

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is there a technical limitation precluding GO from putting a platform on the Milton line at Bloor?
No. Would be side platforms using the existing platform there now as westbound.
 

crs1026

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An inexpert look at Google Maps suggests that the physical dimensions are challenging.

To build a platform serving both Milton tracks (there will be two, eventually) one would have to relocate one bridge over Bloor Street, relocate the current stairway to the pedestrian walkway, and potentially carve out some of the Crossway structure. Expensive, but not impossible.

- Paul
 

Megaton327

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what would be the advantage of stopping Milton trains at Bloor station?

Mainly, people coming in on that line can exit at Bloor, and thereby access Line 2 at a point significantly further east than Kipling if they need to head towards a central or eastern portion of Line 2, saving time; ditto for anyone who has a local destination near there or along the nearby TTC surface routes such as the 504 and 505. Also, extra Union-Bloor service, not that I think it's needed with Kitchener line service plus the UPX.
 

drum118

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I have to correct myself as there is some issues. It would mean either shifting track 6 to the west to allow for a centre platform or having a west only platform. This becomes an operation issue having trains cross track 5 to 6 or 6 to 5.

A new small platform would have to be built on the west side of track 6 connecting to the new tunnel and walkway that are in place now. Very little land is needed for part of the west platform for Crossway and has no impact on the existing structure. In fact, if you line up these new platforms, they will miss the Crossway structure as that is the area the UPX use at this time. It would require some land on the yet to be built condo site as well the plaza to put in a centre platform. Not sure what impact it may have on the existing tunnel for stairs, but no issue for an elevator.

GO doesn't like the idea since it means an extra stop and riders could do this transfer at Kipling. What Go fail to understand it extra time it takes riders to get from Kipling to Bloor as well open up a new service hub. Most of all, it allow riders to get to/from the airport faster using UPX or to connect to the Kitchener line to go west sooner than later. It allows rider to gain access to the 504 and 505 sooner than later as well or the subway.

At the same time, offer a faster way to the new residents for the area to go west on the Milton once all day service shows up.

This is shot from the UPX Platform
 

crs1026

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Putting a stop here makes intuitive sense, but I wonder if the numbers bear it out. Suppose 10% of customers coming from Dixie or beyond would alight at Dundas West if it saved them say 5 minutes over subway from Kipling. The other 90% - who do want the direct ride to Union - have 4 minutes added to their trip downtown. Is that a good tradeoff?

A direct shuttle bus from Dixie would address the potential airport traffic. People getting on the subway at Kipling are guaranteed a seat, whereas people getting on at Dundas West will stand (and by then, the trains are pretty crowded at rush hour).

Of course, if we ever develop the CP North Toronto as a transit route, we may have to rethink Dundas West altogether. That's why they call it the Junction district ;-)

- Paul
 

smallspy

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A direct shuttle bus from Dixie would address the potential airport traffic. People getting on the subway at Kipling are guaranteed a seat, whereas people getting on at Dundas West will stand (and by then, the trains are pretty crowded at rush hour).

- Paul

The current peak point on the line is between Dixie and Kipling, not between Kipling and Union. With the exception of the first and last trains, anyone getting on at Kipling today is going to not get a seat anyways.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

crs1026

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The current peak point on the line is between Dixie and Kipling, not between Kipling and Union. With the exception of the first and last trains, anyone getting on at Kipling today is going to not get a seat anyways.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Dan I meant that people getting off eb GO at Kipling, and getting on the subway, will get a seat on the subway.

As you indicate, anyone on the GO who does this will make standing GO passengers very happy, but few people will be that altruistic ;-)

- Paul
 

TOareaFan

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Putting a stop here makes intuitive sense, but I wonder if the numbers bear it out. Suppose 10% of customers coming from Dixie or beyond would alight at Dundas West if it saved them say 5 minutes over subway from Kipling. The other 90% - who do want the direct ride to Union - have 4 minutes added to their trip downtown. Is that a good tradeoff?

Looks like +/- 6 minutes of saving for a very few people (subway takes 14 minutes Kipling to Dundas W.....GO train Kipling to Union takes 20 minutes....GO train Bloor to Union takes 12 minutes...so we can estimate from schedules that GO Kipling to Bloor is about 8 minutes).

Like you say, is that saving of 6 minutes for a relatively few people worth adding a few minutes to the commute of many? Is it worth the expense that would be required to make it possible? Does having more trains stopping at Bloor Stn from more lines make it harder/more expensive to make room for more frequent service on the line that currently stops at Bloor? These are technical questions beyond me....but my gut says to me that it does not seem to be worth worrying about....it really adds very little in the way of connectivity.
 

dowlingm

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Looks like +/- 6 minutes of saving for a very few people (subway takes 14 minutes Kipling to Dundas W.....GO train Kipling to Union takes 20 minutes....GO train Bloor to Union takes 12 minutes...so we can estimate from schedules that GO Kipling to Bloor is about 8 minutes).

Like you say, is that saving of 6 minutes for a relatively few people worth adding a few minutes to the commute of many? Is it worth the expense that would be required to make it possible? Does having more trains stopping at Bloor Stn from more lines make it harder/more expensive to make room for more frequent service on the line that currently stops at Bloor? These are technical questions beyond me....but my gut says to me that it does not seem to be worth worrying about....it really adds very little in the way of connectivity.
If you're heading to/from Etobicoke North, Weston or Bramalea then a quick change of platform would likely be better than schlepping from Dundas West TTC to GO as I did the other day. Being above ground is more generally enjoyable than being under so people heading to UofT etc. might appreciate the shorter period of gloom/bad AC/dodgy wifi. Even without the inter-station walk, if the gap between GO and subway is only 6 minutes, then for a 2 x 5 commuter that's an hour a week. More passenger footfall might also mean a few more facilities at the currently spartan Bloor GO station.

One other thing a Bloor GO-Milton platform might help with is subway incidents since if trains are stopped somewhere between Kipling and Dundas West, GO could help move some people around that chokepoint. Maybe not many given GO frequency but every 40 moved means one less bus needed.
 

crs1026

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As we've commented in the ST thread, we do need to get our heads around how to make higher order transit a web with distributed transfer points, instead of spokes from Union or Bloor/Yonge with everyone coming to the center to transfer lines. I don't know if Bloor is the right place on this line however.

GO had proposed a Jane station at one point for this route, no doubt linking it to a Jane LRT. That would create a logical 90 degree turn point that links large areas of the northwest with the east-west into Mississauga and Halton. If we had better north-south bus routes in Etobicoke (they are frequent, but plodding at the moment) one might just take a bus to Kipling rather than hopping on the Kitchener line at all.

The other change point that I had assumed might emerge would be Liberty - as it's a common point for three GO/RER lines and potential terminus of DRL. More central than Bloor, to be sure, but still better than going in to Union. ML doesn't appear to be designing that station with that in mind.

Maybe 20 years or more out, we will redesign the West Toronto area to be a transfer hub, similar to Jamaica or Secaucus in the Big Apple. I would wait for that rather than trying to wedge a station in next to the Crossways.

- Paul
 

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