News   Jul 10, 2020
 1.2K     2 
News   Jul 10, 2020
 671     0 
News   Jul 10, 2020
 2.7K     4 

Gardiner Expressway Hybrid Design

MetroMan

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
7,991
Reaction score
4,080
Location
Toronto
What a collosal waste of money. In 10-15 years, we won't even need urban expressways as self driving cars are going to change everything. Less vehicle ownership, cars driving in a train configuration, self regulating and synchronized traffic will make expressways within a city obsolete.

My only hope is that this is delayed like everything else in this city and put off long enough for a future city council to see the writing on the wall when the coming wave of self driving cars from all brands hit the roads in the next couple of years.
 

TrickyRicky

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2,452
Reaction score
516
Sweet, if expressways aren't going to be needed then I can buy them at a discount. I would scoop up those assets in a heartbeat!
 

jje1000

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
4,701
Reaction score
2,085
What a collosal waste of money. In 10-15 years, we won't even need urban expressways as self driving cars are going to change everything. Less vehicle ownership, cars driving in a train configuration, self regulating and synchronized traffic will make expressways within a city obsolete.
I doubt we can write off expressways that quickly, especially in assuming the speedy mass adoption of self-driving vehicles (there will be technical, regulatory and safety concerns raised- valid or not).
 
Last edited:

Leo_Chan

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
3,183
Reaction score
1,896
Location
Richmond Hill
I doubt we can write off expressways that quickly, especially in assuming the speedy mass adoption of self-driving vehicles (there will be technical, regulatory and safety concerns raised- valid of not).
It is more likely that highways/expressways will become self-driving only first, where human driven cars will not be allowed to go on them at all.
 

amnesiajune

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jul 28, 2016
Messages
2,059
Reaction score
965
What a collosal waste of money. In 10-15 years, we won't even need urban expressways as self driving cars are going to change everything. Less vehicle ownership, cars driving in a train configuration, self regulating and synchronized traffic will make expressways within a city obsolete.
Speaking as a software developer, this is pure fantasy. Self driving cars will be reserved to rural highways and freeways for decades, only for safety reasons. Yes, I know someone will quote that and say that self-driving cars cause fewer accidents, but that's irrelevant because the general public has a much higher safety standard that needs to be cleared for pre-programmed driving than spur-of-the-moment human reactions, and it'll take a decades-long cultural revolution to change that thinking.

If anything, the Gardiner and DVP will be used even more 10-20 years from now, because self-driving cars will probably only be allowed on freeways and outside of populated areas. On urban and suburban streets, you'll probably see a fully autonomous car flying above you before you see one driving beside you.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

Moderator
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
27,740
Reaction score
15,738
Location
Toronto
This is the concept I have been purposing for ever............a trench. It could be built for next to nothing if private developers were allowed to build on top of a portion of the road if they subsequently build the road itself.
This is not a trench. It is high quality landscaping at the edge space. It has nothing to do with your concept.

AoD
 

BurlOak

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
6,063
Reaction score
1,642
Its a trench with side slopes (one 1 side - right). I think the Gardiner is above and Lakeshore below - which is opposite to what ssiguy2 talked about.

The left side looks like its right up against a building - not sure if that the railway berm, or does it represent building construction (i.e. likely change from what is shown to a 50 story building).
It looks to me like a lower version of the Gardiner. With pedestrians on the lower level, it will be darker and much less inviting than the current situation.
 

Neil

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
186
Reaction score
91
Perhaps we could build an elevated expressway but just 1cm off the ground. That way we would have the flexibility and openness of the boulevard option yet the costs of an elevated expressway. Y'know, a hybrid.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

Moderator
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
27,740
Reaction score
15,738
Location
Toronto
Its a trench with side slopes (one 1 side - right). I think the Gardiner is above and Lakeshore below - which is opposite to what ssiguy2 talked about.

The left side looks like its right up against a building - not sure if that the railway berm, or does it represent building construction (i.e. likely change from what is shown to a 50 story building).
It looks to me like a lower version of the Gardiner. With pedestrians on the lower level, it will be darker and much less inviting than the current situation.
It's literally just landscaping the preexustng railway berm. No lowering is involved - there is a before illustration in the presentation that speaks to it.

AoD
 

ponyboy

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
945
Reaction score
907
Location
bloor/bathurst
Read the report. I think all of this expensive landscaping will be under-appreciated, and probably not well maintained given our track record. Even with this landscaping, this path under the Gardiner and along Lake Shore Blvd will not be a preferred choice by most people because of noise and pollution. Most people will choose the Queens Quay Path or go north to another E-W corridor (Esplanade, Front, etc).

But if they want a path here, how about an enclosed corridor on the side where new buildings will be. Those developers could be required to build an enclosed 4-5m wide corridor on the edges of their buildings along that side of the road. The air quality would be improved and noise from the road could be reduced. Bright colors, funky paintings and other neat lighting features could be constructed along this weather protected corridor. Pedestrian/bicycle entrances to the buildings along this enclosed path would encourage a walking and bike-friendly community. If they want to spend more money, this corridor could be built on the 2nd or 3rd floor of the new buildings, and PATH-like bridges could allow users to go over the intersections, unimpeded by the north-south roads (Parliament, Sherbourne, and Jarvis).

No path would be needed on the other side of the Gardiner, and if possible, allowing it to be pushed as close as possible to the rail corridor, leaving more room for development and enclosed path.

from the report:
screenshot-waterfrontoronto.ca-2017-07-02-11-49-33.png
screenshot-waterfrontoronto.ca-2017-07-02-11-48-45.png
screenshot-waterfrontoronto.ca-2017-07-02-11-48-02.png
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Steve X

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
1,797
Reaction score
1,125
It is more likely that highways/expressways will become self-driving only first, where human driven cars will not be allowed to go on them at all.
Which brings up a point of why would they even have to build it like a traditional freeway? Current freeways a waste of space and is inefficient. If it's designed for computer driven cars only, merge lanes can be shorter, lanes would be reversible, no signs are needed and lanes are be only 3m wide oppose to the 3.75m wide.
 

Top