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Gardiner Expressway Hybrid Design

Towered

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The alternate that's in Tory's mind is probably putting it in the city's never ending list of "Approved and Not Funded" project list, a list that he should be shamed of. The one good thing that might come out from all of this, is that its going to force his hand to find new revenue tools for the city, he really has no choice. Unless he wants to hack and slash away and kiss his job goodbye.
The last time he sought new revenue tools for the city's transit expansion, the premier (ironically a pro-transit Liberal) slapped him down.
 

rbt

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The last time he sought new revenue tools for the city's transit expansion, the premier (ironically a pro-transit Liberal) slapped him down.
Miller proposed tolls, Tory proposed tolls, even Doug Ford himself proposed tolls; if they were going to happen (before electric vehicles are the majority) it would be early in Ford's next term.

"Councillor Doug Ford says it's time to partner with the private sector and consider adding toll lanes to the Gardiner Expressway"

 
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44 North

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This Tweet from The Star's Jennifer Pagliaro should stir some chatter here:

View attachment 241115

Hmm. Hopefully not the worst option: Maintain. Highway stays, and isn't improved.

Miller proposed tolls, Tory proposed tolls, even Doug Ford himself proposed tolls; if they were going to happen (before electric vehicles are the majority) it would be early in Fords next term.

"Councillor Doug Ford says it's time to partner with the private sector and consider adding toll lanes to the Gardiner Expressway"

Yeah Doug's idea is pretty out to lunch. It'd be adding a new parallel highway that's tolled, while keeping the existing Gardiner non-tolled.
 

rbt

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Yeah Doug's idea is pretty out to lunch. It'd be adding a new parallel highway that's tolled, while keeping the existing Gardiner non-tolled.
Absolutely. Point being, he didn't object to them as a revenue generation tool, there is a huge budget crunch ahead, and he already learned over the last 2 years he can't cut without his own supporters getting mad. Tolls on the downtown elite might be something he tries to sell.
 
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mburrrrr

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The Gardiner Expressway's westbound Sherbourne/Jarvis off-ramp will reopen on Sunday, April 19, at 12:01 a.m. The off-ramp, closed since October 2019, was replaced as part of Gardiner Expressway Strategic Rehabilitation Plan.

On Saturday, April 18, beginning at 12:01 a.m., crews will work to readjust construction staging to prepare for the reopening of the westbound off-ramp to Lower Sherbourne/Lower Jarvis Streets and the simultaneous closure of the westbound off-ramp to Yonge-Bay-York Streets.

During this time, two lanes will be closed on the southbound Don Valley Parkway (DVP) and westbound Gardiner Expressway starting from just south of the Richmond Street East exit on the DVP to the Jarvis Street on-ramp on the Gardiner Expressway.

On Saturday, April 18, to ensure a safe transition of the construction staging:

• both westbound off-ramps (Lower Sherbourne/Jarvis and Yonge-Bay-York) will be fully closed

• two lanes will be closed on the southbound Don Valley Parkway (DVP) and westbound Gardiner Expressway starting from just south of the Richmond Street East exit on the DVP to the Jarvis Street on-ramp on the Gardiner Expressway

• the on-ramp to the westbound Gardiner Expressway from Lake Shore Boulevard East near Logan Avenue will be closed

• the westbound Jarvis Street on-ramp will be the first opportunity for traffic on Lake Shore Boulevard East to access the westbound Gardiner Expressway

Work taking place on and near the Yonge-Bay-York off-ramp includes the replacement of the concrete deck and steel girders of the westbound expressway lanes near the ramp. The ramp is expected to be closed until late summer 2020 when construction will move to the final phase for the replacement of the southern half (eastbound lanes) of the expressway deck.
Yonge St ramp is closed and Lower Sherbourne/Jarvis ramp is now open.
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mburrrrr

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Jarvis St. / Gardiner deck replacement in 48 hours! It is possible.
I’ll have to remember that the next time my favourite country road bridge is out for replacement with summer long detours or delays from those single lane traffic lights.
I guess a lot of planning, prep, local fabrication, cranes & lifts, 30+ OT workers on site and a lot of money can get the job done.


Friday 5:00 p.m. (edit - technical glitch loading with this picture)
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Saturday 8:00 a.m.
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Saturday 5:00 p.m.
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Sunday 9:30 a.m.
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Monday morning
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Just like the “Bridge Constructor App/Game“......
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...the load test passed.
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ssiguy2

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I don't agree with the idea of tolls on roads like the Gardiner.

If it's a new piece of infrastructure then fine but if not then it seems patently unfair. Many people moved to the areas they are due to being convenient for work or their many trips to downtown but now they are being asked to pay a toll. Why should they have to pay a toll for an upgrade on existing infrastructure when the people along the 401, DVP etc don't have to? A general gas tax is far fairer.....…….the more you use the roads the more you pay.
 

sixrings

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I don't agree with the idea of tolls on roads like the Gardiner.

If it's a new piece of infrastructure then fine but if not then it seems patently unfair. Many people moved to the areas they are due to being convenient for work or their many trips to downtown but now they are being asked to pay a toll. Why should they have to pay a toll for an upgrade on existing infrastructure when the people along the 401, DVP etc don't have to? A general gas tax is far fairer.....…….the more you use the roads the more you pay.
A GPS is even more fair. Anywhere you go it calculates it and sends you a bill. A gas tax is avoidable by people who can afford an EV.
 

Haydenpoon

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I don't agree with the idea of tolls on roads like the Gardiner.

If it's a new piece of infrastructure then fine but if not then it seems patently unfair. Many people moved to the areas they are due to being convenient for work or their many trips to downtown but now they are being asked to pay a toll. Why should they have to pay a toll for an upgrade on existing infrastructure when the people along the 401, DVP etc don't have to? A general gas tax is far fairer.....…….the more you use the roads the more you pay.
One factor of congestion that gas tax cannot control is the time of travel. There are mainly two purposes for a toll road:
1. recover construction cost and maintenance
2. Encourage people to change their time and mode of travel.
 

Northern Light

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I don't agree with the idea of tolls on roads like the Gardiner.

If it's a new piece of infrastructure then fine but if not then it seems patently unfair. Many people moved to the areas they are due to being convenient for work or their many trips to downtown but now they are being asked to pay a toll. Why should they have to pay a toll for an upgrade on existing infrastructure when the people along the 401, DVP etc don't have to? A general gas tax is far fairer.....…….the more you use the roads the more you pay.
Is it equally unfair if someone moved to a location close to subway, and the fare rises at more than double the rate of inflation over 20 years?

What if they moved next to a bus route or GO rail line on which service is tangibly reduced?

Both of these scenarios have happened here in Toronto and environs.

I find it a bit hard to swallow, that tolls are such a high burden, and btw, I'm a car owner and driver.

There are credible arguments in favour of gas tax vs tolls; though these only work for so long as gas is the dominant fuel form; and where the tax is large enough to be a material incentive.

Watching highways like the 400 in York Region grow ever wider, inducing a level of traffic that can't be supported by Toronto's road network, or by cottage country's either........

I'm inclined to think the case for discouraging growth in use by way of tolls is quite solid.

If that causes someone to reevaluate their decision to live in far-flung exurbia, I don't see that as grossly unfair; where the alternative creates even greater and more expensive problems for the rest of us.
 

ssiguy2

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You can't use the example of a subway charging to excuse tolls. The subway/transit increases apply to EVERYONE and not just a small few. A better example would be the TTC having to do major upgrades at, for instance, College Station and hence only charging the people that use that particular station more.

If the City wants tolls then fine but it should be fair by having every freeway in the City tolled by the same amount. They could also charge higher registration fees across the board, higher gas taxes, a city-wide parking tax, a sales tax on car/truck sales....……… a whole plethora of things are at their disposal which are just as easy to implement and far fairer and more equitable than tolling an already existing piece of infrastructure and don't penalize one particular geographic area over another.
 

EnviroTO

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You can't use the example of a subway charging to excuse tolls.
I'm not sure why you can't. The Rocket bus charges me extra. The GO bus going the same distance as two local busses charge extra. The cost is related to cost recovery and benefit. What is farebox recovery right now? Is it still around 80%? Almost no transit uses the Gardiner so shouldn't the people who use transit to get downtown get a property tax discount? I'm against road tolls in areas where there are little options (like the burbs and beyond) but downtown is well serviced. It would make more sense to me to trade the 407 for the Gardiner and DVP in terms of tolling and maintenance.
 

Northern Light

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You can't use the example of a subway charging to excuse tolls. The subway/transit increases apply to EVERYONE and not just a small few. A better example would be the TTC having to do major upgrades at, for instance, College Station and hence only charging the people that use that particular station more.
I don't think that's at all accurate; because not everyone uses the subway, even among transit users, a great many will never use that mode. But more than that, the point you had made was the unfairness that someone chose to live somewhere based on the freeway existing, and being free. My point, was that if someone located because the Yonge Subway is there, and costs $1.10 per token, they would assume as per your logic , that the price would only ever shift with inflation. If the price doubles, in real terms (which it did during a few years back); then that's a material change from the price I'd assumed when I chose where to live. A choice that added $1.10 each way or $2.20 daily. How is that materially different that if the expressway goes from free to $3 per day?

If the City wants tolls then fine but it should be fair by having every freeway in the City tolled by the same amount. They could also charge higher registration fees across the board, higher gas taxes, a city-wide parking tax, a sales tax on car/truck sales....……… a whole plethora of things are at their disposal which are just as easy to implement and far fairer and more equitable than tolling an already existing piece of infrastructure and don't penalize one particular geographic area over another.
Right, but the City only owns 2 of the expressways/highways, the DVP and the Gardiner. They can't impose a toll on a 400-series highway they don't own.
 

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