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Gardiner Expressway Hybrid Design

MetroMan

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What a tragic waste of resources...

I'm less upset with the effect the Gardiner has on the city after seeing the downtown portion urbanized and hemmed in by towers and how The Bentway has made under the expressway not only not derelict but actually a desirable space. It's the huge amount of money being wasted on a part of the Gardiner that is the least used and could have easily been replaced by an at grade solution but was not, purely for political reasons, that pisses me off so much.

That said, knowing that the Gardiner East is going to get rebuilt further away from the water, opening up the shoreline for better uses, and that we'll start to see that hulk of concrete and iron and rats nest of ramps being demolished in the near future is still exciting, the waste of money notwithstanding.
 

innsertnamehere

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The new Gardiner is also going to be a significantly smaller structure than what exists today in the area. It's going from a massive 8 lane facility sitting 60ft off the ground to a much smaller 4 lane facility much closer to grade.

It's easy to forget that the Lakeshore ramps will also be moved further west to Cherry, effectively removing another 700m of the highway.

The structure is going to feel completely different than it did before. I really do believe that the Hybrid option was the best choice.
 

treplow

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I recently visited Chicago for the first time. After years of hearing about how that city is some sort of mecca of urban waterfront design that puts Toronto to shame, I was surprised to discover that they have their own downtown traffic choked barrier highway cutting off pedestrian access to the lake. Sorry but getting to Navy Pier on foot via a dimly lit pedestrian tunnel is no different/better than crossing Lakehore Boulevard (or using the PATH walkway) to get to Queens Quay.
 

MetroMan

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The new Gardiner is also going to be a significantly smaller structure than what exists today in the area. It's going from a massive 8 lane facility sitting 60ft off the ground to a much smaller 4 lane facility much closer to grade.

It's easy to forget that the Lakeshore ramps will also be moved further west to Cherry, effectively removing another 700m of the highway.

The structure is going to feel completely different than it did before. I really do believe that the Hybrid option was the best choice.
Perhaps developers will come forward to hem in the new Gardiner with their backs toward it, all but hiding it from a viewer on the waterfront. Pedestrian bridges connecting buildings as has been done with the rail corridor in South Core would further hide the expressway. Even better would be if the city sells air rights over the expressway and rail corridor, enabling developers to build over the Gardiner East, effectively turning it into a tunnelled expressway.
 

treplow

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Perhaps developers will come forward to hem in the new Gardiner with their backs toward it, all but hiding it from a viewer on the waterfront. Pedestrian bridges connecting buildings as has been done with the rail corridor in South Core would further hide the expressway. Even better would be if the city sells air rights over the expressway and rail corridor, enabling developers to build over the Gardiner East, effectively turning it into a tunnelled expressway.
That massive podium in the Distillery proposal should help hide a big chunk of the Gardiner, at least from the north.
 

Paul Aitken

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Perhaps developers will come forward to hem in the new Gardiner with their backs toward it, all but hiding it from a viewer on the waterfront. Pedestrian bridges connecting buildings as has been done with the rail corridor in South Core would further hide the expressway. Even better would be if the city sells air rights over the expressway and rail corridor, enabling developers to build over the Gardiner East, effectively turning it into a tunnelled expressway.
I've often thought this. Is there a reason why it can't be done? There are many examples of buildings constructed over ground level expressways but I couldn't find any over elevated expressways. It would certainly solve a number of problems if it could be done.
 

Neutrino

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I think the Gardiner is less of a problem for pedestrian access than Lakeshore. I, and as I'm sure most of us on this forum, have had the misfortune of needing to cross Lakeshore after dark. It's an absolute death trap. As for the Gardiner, it should not be torn down unless transit into the core is considerably improved. This would include both WWLRT and EBFLRT; DRL; RER on Stouffville, LSE and LSW; streetcar network improvements. We can't just tear down the Gardiner without giving people viable public transit commute options.
 

gibsonm

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If it wasn’t for the Gardener ramps, Lakeshore would be no different to traverse than University Avenue and could be beautified in much the same way.
 

innsertnamehere

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If it wasn’t for the Gardener ramps, Lakeshore would be no different to traverse than University Avenue and could be beautified in much the same way.
traffic levels on Lake Shore without the Gardiner would be absurd. University generally isn't too bad to cross because it's built well over the capacity it services.

Lake Shore if they demoed the Gardiner would just be a giant traffic sewer with cars spilling out into intersections all the time and making aggressive turns, etc.
 

Tuscani01

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traffic levels on Lake Shore without the Gardiner would be absurd. University generally isn't too bad to cross because it's built well over the capacity it services.

Lake Shore if they demoed the Gardiner would just be a giant traffic sewer with cars spilling out into intersections all the time and making aggressive turns, etc.
That was always my concern with an expanded Lake Shore as well. I much prefer having all of that congestion above ground instead of at street level. I actually wish the Gardiner rebuild came with a Lake Shore diet. Narrow the street, improve the landscaping, and create a better underside to the Gardiner than exists today. I think it's a fair trade off - plus it could result in us getting weather protected bike lanes!
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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That was always my concern with an expanded Lake Shore as well. I much prefer having all of that congestion above ground instead of at street level. I actually wish the Gardiner rebuild came with a Lake Shore diet. Narrow the street, improve the landscaping, and create a better underside to the Gardiner than exists today. I think it's a fair trade off - plus it could result in us getting weather protected bike lanes!
That was in some of the original retain proposals - and it would have been a fair trade IMO.

AoD
 

innsertnamehere

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That was always my concern with an expanded Lake Shore as well. I much prefer having all of that congestion above ground instead of at street level. I actually wish the Gardiner rebuild came with a Lake Shore diet. Narrow the street, improve the landscaping, and create a better underside to the Gardiner than exists today. I think it's a fair trade off - plus it could result in us getting weather protected bike lanes!
I believe they are planning a new bike trail along the north side of the rail corridor as a part of the Gardiner work. Not sure if it's physically underneath the highway or not.
 

ADRM

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I believe they are planning a new bike trail along the north side of the rail corridor as a part of the Gardiner work. Not sure if it's physically underneath the highway or not.
Parts of it are to be directly underneath, and others just north of the overhang.
 

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