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Finch West Line 6 LRT

16 kph average speed looks very bad, compared to how the street-median LRT was presented when Transit City was first introduced.

They did modeling primarily for the Sheppard East line in mind, but the assumptions would apply to any street-median line. The forecast was 22-23 kph for the 400 m average stop spacing, or 27 kph for the 800 m spacing.

For Finch West, the average spacing is 670 m, that's between 400 and 800 m. So, one could expect something like 25 kph.

16 kph is 1.5 times slower, thus if that new forecast is correct, the travel time will be 1.5 longer. For the cost of LRT, hopefully a better outcome can be achieved.

Sure, less delays is a benefit in any case, but if all we can get is 16 kph, then why not build a street-median BRT for a fraction of LRT cost.
At the same time, 36 minutes is faster than the 38 minutes they published last year.

Someone should dig out the EA, and see what it said in terms of travel times.
 
I believe when this opens something will have to give from the public and the TTC will be forced to change their speed models. The whole point of these projects was to get more bang for your buck. And if that fails then best believe they (TTC) will see very angry customers coming their way.
This hasn't stopped them from bungling up their streetcar network. I think many people vastly overestimate how much institutions and companies care about the wrath of little people.
 
Well now, here's a rabbit hole. I went looking for the original TPAP.

Metrolinx' link only points to the TPAP for the MSF.

The original TPAP for the route itself was a Transit City document. I found it on Steve Munro's web site.

It proposed a velocity of 22-23 km/h but that was predicated on a route that extended all the way to Yonge St.

Metrolinx did indeed state 38 minutes in their communications.

What happened over the years, I don't have the time to research.

- Paul
 
I believe when this opens something will have to give from the public and the TTC will be forced to change their speed models. The whole point of these projects was to get more bang for your buck. And if that fails then best believe they (TTC) will see very angry customers coming their way.

The riders won't be too happy, but they won't be very angry either. After all, LRT is better than mixed-traffic bus, it is more reliable and more spacious.

The fact that we are spending the better half of a billion on this line and not getting the promised speed, isn't the riders fault and is not their problem.

However, any new suburban LRT projects in this city will go on hold. Until the TTC figures out how to run dedicated-lanes LRTs faster than the mixed-traffic buses.
 
At the same time, 36 minutes is faster than the 38 minutes they published last year.

Someone should dig out the EA, and see what it said in terms of travel times.

Hopefully, before the end of this year we will have the measured travel time :) Beats any EA.
 
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As someone who has taken the Finch bus from Humber to Yonge, 36 minutes will be a dream in comparison to what it is now.

It is funny how apocalyptic people on this forum get about the potential speeds of the LRT lines when they haven't even opened. People will rise up! Rexdale will burn! The streets will run red with blood because the average speed of the LRT is x kph instead of y kph!

No, nobody will rise up. It will be an annoyance that it is not faster, but many people will be happy with the improved transit.
 
As someone who has taken the Finch bus from Humber to Yonge, 36 minutes will be a dream in comparison to what it is now.

It is funny how apocalyptic people on this forum get about the potential speeds of the LRT lines when they haven't even opened. People will rise up! Rexdale will burn! The streets will run red with blood because the average speed of the LRT is x kph instead of y kph!

No, nobody will rise up. It will be an annoyance that it is not faster, but many people will be happy with the improved transit.
Toronto (təˈɹɑnoʊ), verb: to settle and make excuses for the status quo, rather than expend extra effort for a good solution.

It’s great to see improved transit, but given the $1.2 billion capital cost and $2.5 billion total cost, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to wonder if we can create faster travel times than a medium-speed cyclist on our transit lines.

Higher speed means less operating costs (need less vehicles for a certain frequency), higher ridership, and better bang for buck on our transit investments.

Given the TTC’s very poor record of operating street-level rail transit at a decent speed, I don’t think some critical questions about their procedures is unwarranted.
 
Nobody will rise up. Lines under construction now, will get completed and will begin operating.

Future planning is the issue, though. 16 kph is materially different from 23 kph. The appeal of new LRT projects will be negatively affected, if 16 kph is all the TTC can get from them.

Although, let's wait for the beginning of operation. Sometimes the planners miscalculate the operational params, perhaps the actual speed will be closer to 23 kph.
 
However, any new suburban LRT projects in this city will go on hold. Until the TTC figures out how to run dedicated-lanes LRTs faster than the mixed-traffic buses.
I'm under the impression most of the problems are operational and could be fixed at little to no cost correct? With proper signal priority and removing most slow orders through intersections they could probably improve the average time by 15-20% no? I'm speculating, but the stop spacing is reasonable and there aren't many switches to impede speed at intersections. This doesn't have the infrastructural issues of a spadina or st clair.
As someone who has taken the Finch bus from Humber to Yonge, 36 minutes will be a dream in comparison to what it is now.

It is funny how apocalyptic people on this forum get about the potential speeds of the LRT lines when they haven't even opened. People will rise up! Rexdale will burn! The streets will run red with blood because the average speed of the LRT is x kph instead of y kph!

No, nobody will rise up. It will be an annoyance that it is not faster, but many people will be happy with the improved transit.
This is my impression too having ridden the 36 a lot many years ago. It was usually about an hour long bus ride in peak hours. I predict the local ridership will be very happy with the Finch LRT when its done even though it could and should be much faster.
 
Wondering where and when the traffic priority was deleted?

- Paul


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However, any new suburban LRT projects in this city will go on hold. Until the TTC figures out how to run dedicated-lanes LRTs faster than the mixed-traffic buses.
The bus on Finch West, between the end points of the LRT, currently takes 45 minutes or more.

In what world is 36 (or 38) minutes slower than 45?

Dan
 
As someone who has taken the Finch bus from Humber to Yonge, 36 minutes will be a dream in comparison to what it is now.

It is funny how apocalyptic people on this forum get about the potential speeds of the LRT lines when they haven't even opened. People will rise up! Rexdale will burn! The streets will run red with blood because the average speed of the LRT is x kph instead of y kph!

No, nobody will rise up. It will be an annoyance that it is not faster, but many people will be happy with the improved transit.
This post really doesn't sit well with me. This "this is good enough for the people of Rexdale" has a hint of something... to it. We aren't making the downtown crowd along the Yonge corridor, or along Boor, wait these kind of times/spdees, but for the people of Rexdale, "yeah, let em wait." instead of wanting better for the area and riders.
 
This post really doesn't sit well with me. This "this is good enough for the people of Rexdale" has a hint of something... to it. We aren't making the downtown crowd along the Yonge corridor, or along Boor, wait these kind of times/spdees, but for the people of Rexdale, "yeah, let em wait." instead of wanting better for the area and riders.
As a former downtown resident I can assure you many people who live downtown rarely if ever take the subway and are more likely to use the streetcar and or walk. The subway is to help people from the suburbs get into downtown.
 

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