Fare evasion on the TTC...

[Long Island Mike]

Everyone: I decided to ask about how much fare evasion that the TTC endures after I read about those two high-profile cases of token counterfeiting and remembering a recent incident on a NYC Transit bus in Brooklyn where a bus driver was stabbed to death after confronting a farebeater.

I remember that for example that the TTC bus bays at many stations were wide open and protected by literally nothing more than a warning sign.

How much problems does the TTC have with those sneaking thru turnstiles or illegally entering a bus or streetcar at a rear door?

What is the penalty for those caught farebeating? Two examples I will note here in NYC are:

NYC Transit: A summonsable offense-ticket written with the offender subject to arrest usually. The offender is usually fined. NYC Transit has been tough with farebeaters in recent years-because many of those offenders cause other trouble in the transit system.

PATH(Port Authority Trans-Hudson System) between NY and NJ:
I recall being told by a PA Police officer back in the 80s that the penalty for farebeating was one hundred times the current fare-when the fare was fifty cents it was fifty bucks for example.
Today the PATH fare is $1.75-One Hundred Seventy Five Bucks would be somewhat of a hefty fine-let alone being subject to arrest also.

Do the TTC Constables or Toronto Police arrest or prosecute offenders?
Are there any trouble spots with fare evasion problems?

I do not remember problems anyplace on my past Toronto trips-what has changed these days? Any comments or observations anyone?

- Long Island Mike -

 

[jenny_zhang]

Just yesterday I was on a bus when a man came on, put something in the box and waked through. The driver called him back and told him to pay the full fine but the man wouldn't go back up front. So all of us in the bus were simply sitting there waiting for this man to go back. The driver called his "mission control" (I don't know what it is really) who also made an announcement telling the man to pay. Finally after half and hour he paid and we got going again. It was very disruptive. And I've witnessed countless incidents where a shouting match has taken place with the driver, and things like that. After riding on VIVA a few times, I really wish that the TTC could adopt that kind of honour system. I know that people cheat their way onto VIVA sometimes and take advantage of it, but I also know that at least a few of them get caught and had to pay the fine, which probably covers the cost of any cheating they or their friends did. The driver also can focus on his job - driving..

 

[nfitz]

The driver called him back and told him to pay the full fine but the man wouldn't go back up front.

Doesn't seem right. The driver shouldn't be collecting the full fine, just the fare. I'd be very concerned that the driver would be pocketing the fine, and I wouldn't pay either!

 

[Railization]

Doesn't seem right. The driver shouldn't be paying the full fine, just the fare. I'd be very concerned that the driver would be pocketing the fine, and I wouldn't pay either!

It's an obvious typo. She meant to type fare. Operators aren't responsible for collecting fines, and they'd never halt service for the collection of a fine either.

 

[nfitz]

It's an obvious typo. She meant to type fare.

Not only is it not obvious, I'm not even sure that's a typo. But maybe she mispoke.

 

[Railization]

Not only is it not obvious, I'm not even sure that's a typo. But maybe she mispoke.

If you type "fine" instead of "fare", it's an obvious typo. Cut the girl some slack, you're giving her such a hard time for a small mistake that everybody except you would still be able to understand what she meant.

 

[nfitz]

If you type "fine" instead of "fare", it's an obvious typo. Cut the girl some slack, you're giving her such a hard time for a small mistake that everybody except you would still be able to understand what she meant.

Typing the wrong word, with only the first letter common, is by definition not a typo. I'm willing to cut slack, but the meaning was not clear, and I'm not going to call something a typo that isn't.

How about cutting me some slack then?

 

[Railization]

Typing the wrong word, with only the first letter common, is by definition not a typo. I'm willing to cut slack, but the meaning was not clear, and I'm not going to call something a typo that isn't.

How about cutting me some slack then?

a)It's not only the first letter, it's the first and last letter.
b)The meanings are similar (both deal with money).
c)Both words are the same length.

The above all contribute to this being an easy typo to make. There is no rule that states a typo is only one letter. Typing "that" twice, for example, is also considered a typo. Don't make things up as you go... maybe then I'd cut you some slack.

 

[nfitz]

Don't make things up as you go...

????

 

[W. K. Lis]

From the TTC website:

The Toronto Transit Commission’s Special Constable Program is currently under going a review. As a result, we are not accepting applications or resumes for the position of Special Constable.

We are anticipating the review to be complete by the Fall of 2009.

The Special Constables were the ones who checked the passengers for Proof Of Payment (POP) on the 501 Queen for fare evasion. I had thought they were recruiting more Special Constables as they were going to expand POP to rest of the streetcar network, ahead of all door boarding on the low-floor light rail vehicles.

 

[nfitz]

When was the last time anyone ever saw someone checking fares on the 501? I don't tend to use it daily (I'm more likely found on the 506, or even the 504 and 505), but I've never seen one - not at least since I returned to Toronto in 2004 (though my usage has been a lot heavier since 2007), even when I was using 501 about once a week in 2008.

 

[RedRocket191]

To bring things back onto topic.

Adam Giambrone recently alluded to possibility of having Toronto Police Service officers replace special constables as the patrol element of the security and then have the special constables re-deployed as fare inspectors. I think that this would be a good thing and I can see the broad public supporting this - until they realize that this means armed officers on the subway ala Vancouver.

This is likely the subject of the review W. K. Lis referenced above.

 

[nfitz]

Wouldn't there be security concerns having lots of armed officers on TTC vehicles when eveyoneone is crammed in like sardines? I would have thought it would have just been a little too easy to get your hands on an officer's gun when everyone is squished together.

Other than that, the idea seems to make sense.

 

[Darren B]

Transfeless busbays are the biggest source of fare evasions in the TTC, and one which the TTC never admits nor will address.

Speaking to an engineer with the TTC once, he tried to justify the busbays by saying they kept traffic off the road, but then admitted they held as much traffic with the buses trying to enter and exit the station.

We should create curb side boarding like at Dufferin and Bay. The air right over the stations could be sold, thus creating a cashflow, and the average transition from bus to subway would be quicker.

 

[interchange42]

At most stations you could never fit every bus that stops along the curb without causing traffic chaos. You could at a few, but at most stations, you'd never fit everybody waiting to board a bus on the sidewalks either.

There are better ways to address fare evasion than to eliminate fare-paid boarding areas.

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