Toronto Eglinton Line 5 Crosstown West Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

sixrings said:
So what you’re saying is we’re building this transit to serve the ducks, raccoons and rabbits in the area. Perfect.
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York Mills Station is no different lol. Just like we have done since the beginning, we're building rapid transit to easily connect to local bus routes and potentially future LRT/Metro lines (looks over at Jane Street and Kipling Street).
 
ARG1 said:
York Mills Station is no different lol. Just like we have done since the beginning, we're building rapid transit to easily connect to local bus routes and potentially future LRT/Metro lines (looks over at Jane Street and Kipling Street).
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Sorry based on some Scarborough conversations I was under the impression that people did not want to take busses to stations and that parking garages help free up highway congestion by allowing people a dignified transit option. Maybe people along eglinton can’t afford cars and are therefore ok with busses.

Oh man I can’t let anything go anymore. Covid has gotten the worst of me. My apologies.
 
sixrings said:
Sorry based on some Scarborough conversations I was under the impression that people did not want to take busses to stations and that parking garages help free up highway congestion by allowing people a dignified transit option. Maybe people along eglinton can’t afford cars and are therefore ok with busses.

Oh man I can’t let anything go anymore. Covid has gotten the worst of me. My apologies.
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Maybe instead of writing smug passive-aggressive remarks to what people are writing that you skim through and boil down to black and white bullet points that completely misinterpret the context and the message, you actually pay attention to what is being said so that you aren't confused.
 
ARG1 said:
Maybe instead of writing smug passive-aggressive remarks to what people are writing that you skim through and boil down to black and white bullet points that completely misinterpret the context and the message, you actually pay attention to what is being said so that you aren't confused.
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I’m definitely not confused. I fully understand how the Scarborough lrt cancellation and now Scarborough subway left eglinton east with no money and eglinton west tunnelled because if they can have tunnelled why can’t we. I also am not confused how some said they would be content if Scarborough just got it’s subway they deserved and then said they would welcome the density that came along. Not only were they not content the people started campaigning for Sheppard subway to be completed to Scarborough town centre because again they feel neglected. And then to add insult to injury now some are advocating for a parking garage at one of its stations which would be taking up land from development. Definitely not confused. Bitter. Angry. But not confused.

Clear rant. Not passive aggressive.
 
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Well, I tried to explain the situation in the SSE thread, without much success. But will try one more time.

There is no point building parking garages in the middle of Etobicoke. Eg West LRT will get a substantial percentage of its riders just walking to the stations. For those who live too far to walk, central Etobicoke has a decent bus network, and every bus route crossing Eglinton will connect to at least one EWLRT station.

The interceptor parking garages need to be built at the edge stations. In case of EWLRT, the natural location is at the Renforth Gateway. If someone is driving from Bolton via 427, or from Milton via 401, they can leave the car at the edge of 416, and take the LRT if it goes where they want to go. For example, to the Yonge & Eglinton area. If there is no parking there, they will drive all the way to their destination. They will not switch to their local bus that runs once in 90 min, or to GO that only runs to Union.

The policy of not having parking spaces at the edge stations is effectively pro-emission (encourages more car-kilometers driven), even though its proponents are kidding themselves into believing they are pursuing the green agenda.
 
Rainforest said:
Well, I tried to explain the situation in the SSE thread, without much success. But will try one more time.

There is no point building parking garages in the middle of Etobicoke. Eg West LRT will get a substantial percentage of its riders just walking to the stations. For those who live too far to walk, central Etobicoke has a decent bus network, and every bus route crossing Eglinton will connect to at least one EWLRT station.

The interceptor parking garages need to be built at the edge stations. In case of EWLRT, the natural location is at the Renforth Gateway. If someone is driving from Bolton via 427, or from Milton via 401, they can leave the car at the edge of 416, and take the LRT if it goes where they want to go. For example, to the Yonge & Eglinton area. If there is no parking there, they will drive all the way to their destination. They will not switch to their local bus that runs once in 90 min, or to GO that only runs to Union.

The policy of not having parking spaces at the edge stations is effectively pro-emission (encourages more car-kilometers driven), even though its proponents are kidding themselves into believing they are pursuing the green agenda.
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I don’t understand how a old Canadian tire and Nissan dealership is not prime development land for condos, and affordable housing instead of a parking garage.
 
Rainforest said:
They will not switch to their local bus that runs once in 90 min, or to GO that only runs to Union.
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Maybe we take the $100M that a parking garage would cost and put that into improved bus service.

If someone from the boonies is going downtown, they can park at a GO station. If they aren't going downtown, that seems like a prime candidate for a trip that suits a car and they might as well park near their destination rather than tying up a parking spot for twice as long at a transit station (potentially subsidized parking) and taking a subsidized ride on transit.

I don't see why we should be willing to subsidize drivers to park at a station 10-100x someone who takes the bus or rides their bike.
 
sixrings said:
I don’t understand how a old Canadian tire and Nissan dealership is not prime development land for condos, and affordable housing instead of a parking garage.
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First of all, Renforth Gateway is close to the airport, there may be height restrictions there, and the area is mostly industrial. Not sure a condo building placed there will be too popular.

And secondly, I see dozens of locations in the close proximity of existing subway stations, much closer to the core than Renforth Gateway. Those locations could host new condos, but are not used for that purpose. And the residential NUMBYs aren't always to blame, half of those locations are occupied by low-rise retail and can be converted to residential without much difficulty. If that doesn't happen, that must be because there are no buyers with enough money, not because there isn't enough land.

If the shortage of land is the main problem, then for sure, condos should always have priority over parking. But we do have land.
 
Rainforest said:
First of all, Renforth Gateway is close to the airport, there may be height restrictions there, and the area is mostly industrial. Not sure a condo building placed there will be too popular.

And secondly, I see dozens of locations in the close proximity of existing subway stations, much closer to the core than Renforth Gateway. Those locations could host new condos, but are not used for that purpose. And the residential NUMBYs aren't always to blame, half of those locations are occupied by low-rise retail and can be converted to residential without much difficulty. If that doesn't happen, that must be because there are no buyers with enough money, not because there isn't enough land.

If the shortage of land is the main problem, then for sure, condos should always have priority over parking. But we do have land.
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I was referencing the original debate of a parking garage at McCowqn and sheppard.
 
afransen said:
Maybe we take the $100M that a parking garage would cost and put that into improved bus service.

If someone from the boonies is going downtown, they can park at a GO station. If they aren't going downtown, that seems like a prime candidate for a trip that suits a car and they might as well park near their destination rather than tying up a parking spot for twice as long at a transit station (potentially subsidized parking) and taking a subsidized ride on transit.

I don't see why we should be willing to subsidize drivers to park at a station 10-100x someone who takes the bus or rides their bike.
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Parking is not subsidized, it brings money into the system. The claim it is "subsidized" refers to the fact that in many locations, the Green P parking rates could have been set higher and the revenue would increase. So, it is "subsidized" in the sense that it costs less than what the market could bear. But it is a net revenue source, and if you do not have it at all then you lose some revenue.

The transit ride is subsidized, for a number of good reasons. One person walks to the Kipling&Eglinton station and takes a subsidized train ride to Yonge&Eglinton, that eliminates about 2 x 12 = 24 car-kilometers driven. Another person drives the car to a parking lot at Renforth and takes a subsidized train ride to Yonge&Eglinton, that eliminates about 2 x 14 = 28 car-kilometers driven. In both cases, the transit ride is subsidized to cut emissions; there is no logical reason to approve the former case and disapprove the latter.

EDIT, regarding the improvements to local bus service outside Toronto: That's possible for some corridors, Mississauga and Brampton already have decent bus service and will be improving further. But some people are driving from places where a regular bus isn't just hard to sustain financially, but it would actually emit more CO2 than the car rides it replaces. One bus emits more than 1 car, 2 cars, or 3 cars, because the bus is much bigger and heavier. You need to reach a certain load per bus before it becomes net positive. In the city, that threshold is crossed easily and the buses are full or at least half-full, so we don't think in such terms. In the rural areas, bus isn't always the solution.
 
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sixrings said:
I was referencing the original debate of a parking garage at McCowqn and sheppard.
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Got it. McCowan & Sheppard is a better location in terms of local environment. If the area gets very popular and totally filled with condos, then perhaps we shouldn't allocate the space for parking.

But I am a little doubtful .. looking at the area around Sheppard West Stn, close to where I live. That location is a lot more central and more appealing than McCowan & Sheppard. They developed one small block in the north-western corner, but they could develop the whole western side of Allen Road, all the way to Finch. It is all low-rise retail, no NYMBYs, and could turn into a very transit-friendly high-rise residential. No signs of anything happening. In summary, I doubt that space saved by not having parking will actually result in more condos built at McCowan & Sheppard.
 
Rainforest said:
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EDIT, regarding the improvements to local bus service outside Toronto: That's possible for some corridors, Mississauga and Brampton already have decent bus service and will be improving further. But some people are driving from places where a regular bus isn't just hard to sustain financially, but it would actually emit more CO2 than the car rides it replaces. One bus emits more than 1 car, 2 cars, or 3 cars, because the bus is much bigger and heavier. You need to reach a certain load per bus before it becomes net positive. In the city, that threshold is crossed easily and the buses are full or at least half-full, so we don't think in such terms. In the rural areas, bus isn't always the solution.
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Don’t worry so much about the 905. As you said a bus is somehow good enough for people of Mississauga and Brampton. Vaughan has a subway. Richmond hill is getting a subway and our wonderful premier promised a subway to Pickering too. Actually now I feel bad for Mississauga Brampton people.
 
Rainforest said:
Got it. McCowan & Sheppard is a better location in terms of local environment. If the area gets very popular and totally filled with condos, then perhaps we shouldn't allocate the space for parking.

But I am a little doubtful .. looking at the area around Sheppard West Stn, close to where I live. That location is a lot more central and more appealing than McCowan & Sheppard. They developed one small block in the north-western corner, but they could develop the whole western side of Allen Road, all the way to Finch. It is all low-rise retail, no NYMBYs, and could turn into a very transit-friendly high-rise residential. No signs of anything happening. In summary, I doubt that space saved by not having parking will actually result in more condos built at McCowan & Sheppard.
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This post almost makes me think that you believe that a subway to a place like Humber bay shores makes more sense then some of the suburban subway expansion projects you advocate for. Then I have to remind myself that someone driving from Humber bay shores to downtown is polluting a lot less than someone driving from the 905 so surely a subway to big box store suburbs is better for the environment. Plus those Humber bay shore people are probably rich and get to ride in fancy cars so why would they care. Maybe they even drive evs so it’s all good.
 
Rainforest said:
Well, I tried to explain the situation in the SSE thread, without much success. But will try one more time.

There is no point building parking garages in the middle of Etobicoke. Eg West LRT will get a substantial percentage of its riders just walking to the stations. For those who live too far to walk, central Etobicoke has a decent bus network, and every bus route crossing Eglinton will connect to at least one EWLRT station.

The interceptor parking garages need to be built at the edge stations. In case of EWLRT, the natural location is at the Renforth Gateway. If someone is driving from Bolton via 427, or from Milton via 401, they can leave the car at the edge of 416, and take the LRT if it goes where they want to go. For example, to the Yonge & Eglinton area. If there is no parking there, they will drive all the way to their destination. They will not switch to their local bus that runs once in 90 min, or to GO that only runs to Union.

The policy of not having parking spaces at the edge stations is effectively pro-emission (encourages more car-kilometers driven), even though its proponents are kidding themselves into believing they are pursuing the green agenda.
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The problem with Etobicoke are the cul-de-sacs along Eglinton West. The crescents, dead ends, and winding roads add a long distance if one has to walk to the stations. What is needed are bicycle garages at each and every station. Some could even be incorporated underground, next to the stations.

They don't have to big like in the Netherlands, but should be expandable for future growth of the bicycle garage.

The bad news would be that Toronto an Metrolinx will try for the cheapest and most inconvenient and poorest quality facility as possible.
 
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