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Eglinton West LRT | Metrolinx

W. K. Lis

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Preliminary conceptual photos on the virtual open house.

View attachment 239176

View attachment 239177
I'm assuming the reason for placing the portal on the NORTH side of Eglinton Avenue West, west of Scarlett Road, is because the high pressure gas pipeline is located on the south side of the roadway. They're assuming placing the roadway over it would be less of a problem than tunnelling on the south side for the light rail.

And appeasing Doug Ford for his edict for invisible rapid transit during his travels in his SUV.
 

Reecemartin

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Kinda unfortunate that it won't go to Pearson immediately, given the history I cam imagine it going to Renforth for a LONG time with the connection to Pearson put off. I do like the integrated transit centre concept at Pearson but why not just make this the first project for that. I'd have to have an LAX scenario where the LRT ends just off airport lands and everyone has to hop on a bus.

Hard pill to swallow to see the Hamilton LRT cancelled but this go forward, costs be damned. The Hamilton LRT would have been so much more transformational.
Sure but, it wouldn't have gotten close to the same ridership.

The Hamilton LRT was projected to have between 42,000-50,000 daily boardings in 2031.


This compares to 37,000 daily boardings for the Eglinton West LRT as currently planned, which costs roughly 2x as much. The *lowest* ridership Eglinton West LRT option had only 23,000 daily boardings, less than half of the Hamilton LRT.

Sorry, no.
The numbers as were mentioned are pretty bogus, we are talking about connecting one of the largest (2nd? I think) employment zones in the country to the cities primary rapid transit network as well as Mississauga, 23k a day sounds more than a little off. This line should have solid ridership from day 1.

Sure, but the surface LRT option had higher ridership.
Yeah because Metrolinx used arbitrary weightings to suggest that ascending an escalator or a few stairs was going to be a major deterrent to ridership, I think the reverse is true and the numerous stops leading to a slow trip would be a bigger deterrent. Given the core of the Crosstown is grade separated why not continue that as far as possible?
 

Reecemartin

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RE the UP Express, great service as everyone knows but, I struggle to call it mass transit. It really is like the Heathrow Express built to be a premium limited stop service and that is built into the small stations and *relatively* low frequency. As demand grows over time I see the Crosstown filling the rapid transit at standard costs role and the UP shifting back to a more premium service potentially with another service that sits in the middle and acts as a local.
 

Coolstar

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Kinda unfortunate that it won't go to Pearson immediately, given the history I cam imagine it going to Renforth for a LONG time with the connection to Pearson put off. I do like the integrated transit centre concept at Pearson but why not just make this the first project for that. I'd have to have an LAX scenario where the LRT ends just off airport lands and everyone has to hop on a bus.
Agreed. A second airport Express bus with free fares running out of Renforth or even Mount Dennis to each of the terminals would be adequate for the time being.
 

Steve X

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RE the UP Express, great service as everyone knows but, I struggle to call it mass transit. It really is like the Heathrow Express built to be a premium limited stop service and that is built into the small stations and *relatively* low frequency. As demand grows over time I see the Crosstown filling the rapid transit at standard costs role and the UP shifting back to a more premium service potentially with another service that sits in the middle and acts as a local.
I think they could really just repurpose the UPX as part of the GO network and introduce business class coaches. This would make the service even more appealing to the upper class while maintaining rapid transit for the common folks. I think they could even offer business class seating in rush hour trains on other lines to generate more income if the demand is there. The crosstown built as a "subway" is still too slow for airport to downtown travels.
 

asher__jo

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Kinda unfortunate that it won't go to Pearson immediately, given the history I cam imagine it going to Renforth for a LONG time with the connection to Pearson put off. I do like the integrated transit centre concept at Pearson but why not just make this the first project for that. I'd have to have an LAX scenario where the LRT ends just off airport lands and everyone has to hop on a bus.



Sure but, it wouldn't have gotten close to the same ridership.



The numbers as were mentioned are pretty bogus, we are talking about connecting one of the largest (2nd? I think) employment zones in the country to the cities primary rapid transit network as well as Mississauga, 23k a day sounds more than a little off. This line should have solid ridership from day 1.



Yeah because Metrolinx used arbitrary weightings to suggest that ascending an escalator or a few stairs was going to be a major deterrent to ridership, I think the reverse is true and the numerous stops leading to a slow trip would be a bigger deterrent. Given the core of the Crosstown is grade separated why not continue that as far as possible?
I'm referring to numbers the TTC found prior to this even being a Metrolinx project. Why not continue grade seperated? Value for money!
 

44 North

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Still think they should look at this as a separate line. At the very least as a modelling and cost-effectiveness concept. If the the Prov is keen on subway-building and not tram-style LRT, then let's see this puppy using actual subway/metro rolling stock. Plan it so that it uses the exact same rolling stock as their Ontario Line. Because, one day, it could potentially be the western arm of said line. Plan it out as such. And we know the Jane LRT never worked south of Eglinton as a surface line and had to be sub-grade. Well, potentially this Eglinton West *subway* could serve that role veering south from Mt Dennis.

LFLRVs are not the right vehicle for going fully grade-separated.
 

Steve X

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Still think they should look at this as a separate line. At the very least as a modelling and cost-effectiveness concept. If the the Prov is keen on subway-building and not tram-style LRT, then let's see this puppy using actual subway/metro rolling stock. Plan it so that it uses the exact same rolling stock as their Ontario Line. Because, one day, it could potentially be the western arm of said line. Plan it out as such. And we know the Jane LRT never worked south of Eglinton as a surface line and had to be sub-grade. Well, potentially this Eglinton West *subway* could serve that role veering south from Mt Dennis.

LFLRVs are not the right vehicle for going fully grade-separated.
Except the airport segment would likely be built at-grade (From the IBC):

Airport Segment

The Airport Segment follows the original approved alignment in the 2010 EA from Renforth Station in the south up until the northernmost point where Silver Dart Drive parallels Highway 427. The rest of the segment that leads to Pearson Airport remains as a conceptual linkage. Metrolinx and the Greater Toronto Airport Authority (GTAA) are actively collaborating to finalize the Airport Segment’s full alignment as the latter is in the midst of completing its plans for the future RTPC and the former is working with engineering design consultants to develop and refine the alignment of the final segment into the airport and connection to the future RTPC.

With the capital funding arrangement and RTPC site planning uncertain, developing the Airport Segment will take longer and require further analysis. The Renforth-Silver Dart alignment was inherited from the 2010 EA, and additional reviews by the consultants would be required to confirm the deliverability of the alignment considering the complex constraints of the Highway 401-427-27 interchange and the challenging road geometry and built-environment that exist between that interchange and the proposed airport terminus.

There are several preliminary design challenges identified by the consultants for the Renforth-Silver Dart alignment that would need to be addressed (particularly tight radii, steep grades, bridge elevation mismatch at Convair Drive and Matheson Boulevard, short tail track, non-compliant track crossovers and insufficient storage track capacity).

The Renforth-Silver Dart alignment’s key considerations would include MTO highway setbacks and crossing limitations, GTAA flight and electromagnetic interference clearances, potential stop at Airway Centre (an office hub north of Airport Road), power substation requirements and Transport Canada security measure parameters. The present alignment has already factored in the height restriction at the end of runways, which results in an at-grade alignment for much of the Silver Dart alignment.


The engineering design consultants are in the process of developing and evaluating LRT alignment alternatives between Silver Dart and the future RTPC. The preferred option would depend on GTAA’s future development, infrastructure and road network plans (particularly the RTPC design future Finch West LRT interface, the proposed land use plans and the need to serve the Airway Centre).

Further analysis of the Airport Segment options and the identification of mitigation measures for the resulting constraints would rely on potential funding arrangements and synergy with the GTAA’s future plans. Addenda to the 2010 EA would be required for the alignment beyond Silver Dart LRT Stop.

Constructing transit infrastructure next to one of North America’s busiest airports presents its own challenges. Aviation requirements may dictate construction procedures and practices near the airport. This may impact the overall project cost and schedule.
It seems like ML doesn't except a lot of people to be riding beyond Renforth and definitely not want to spend too much money on it. If it actually follows the 2010 EA, the alignment would be in the middle of the road beyond Renforth station.
 

W. K. Lis

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Perhaps they could make it a spur of UPX instead.
Was rejected after John Tory presented his so called "SmartTrack" original plans was discussed, back in 2015.


From link.

People didn't want a "railway" running through their neighbourhoods. Would NOT have been light rail.

See the SmartTrack thread from the beginning (2014) at this link.

Being a "railway", it would need w-i-d-e curves to take the "bend". From link.



 
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Steve X

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Was rejected after John Tory presented his so called "SmartTrack" original plans was discussed, back in 2015.


From link.

People didn't want a "railway" running through their neighbourhoods. Would NOT have been light rail.

See the SmartTrack thread from the beginning (2014) at this link.
The Eglinton extension of ST was so flawed, it is worst than OL. At least OL sounds buildable and made some sense.

The first reason is there isn't any space to build it as Tory didn't realize townhouses were going up. To build a connection with Mt Dennis station, the line would need to go through the Eglinton Flats to curve into the mainline. Thirdly the lack of station for such an expensive project, even the current Eglinton West "subway" made more sense and is a lot more useful. Even if the Richview Expressway corridor remains intact, the line would need to be trenched and grade separated for safety concerns. West of Martingrove would need to be tunneled or have Mimico Creek plus hydro towers relocated to fit an elevated section running double decker GO train coaches.
 

Coolstar

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Any idea if this extension is going to the airport in one phase or is it ending at Renforth with the airport segment held off until the future? I think we should extend the line directly to the airport depending on the progress of the Transit hub at Pearson and if we can determine the route to the airport in time. Although there's been no news on the transit hub other than additional funding since 2017.
 
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Steve X

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Any idea if this extension is going to the airport in one phase or is it ending at Renforth with the airport segment held off until the future? I think we should extend the line directly to the airport depending on the progress of the Transit hub at Pearson and if we can determine the route to the airport in time. Although there's been no news on the transit hub other than additional funding since 2017.
The RFQ calls for a line to Renforth. The airport hub isn't finalized so they can't ask the industry to bid on a concept
 

W. K. Lis

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Any idea if this extension is going to the airport in one phase or is it ending at Renforth with the airport segment held off until the future? I think we should extend the line directly to the airport depending on the progress of the Transit hub at Pearson and if we can determine the route to the airport in time. Although there's been no news on the transit hub other than additional funding since 2017.
The Transit Hub will take longer to design, approve, and construct. See link for https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/toronto-pearson-transit-hub-m-s-gtaa.21541/ .
 

robmausser

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The Eglinton extension of ST was so flawed, it is worst than OL. At least OL sounds buildable and made some sense.

The first reason is there isn't any space to build it as Tory didn't realize townhouses were going up. To build a connection with Mt Dennis station, the line would need to go through the Eglinton Flats to curve into the mainline. Thirdly the lack of station for such an expensive project, even the current Eglinton West "subway" made more sense and is a lot more useful. Even if the Richview Expressway corridor remains intact, the line would need to be trenched and grade separated for safety concerns. West of Martingrove would need to be tunneled or have Mimico Creek plus hydro towers relocated to fit an elevated section running double decker GO train coaches.
Its a shame because there was some merit to the other parts of Smarttrack, but it kinda got lumped in with this crazy idea.
 

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