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Eglinton West LRT | Metrolinx

crs1026

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But there's more. Sauga has done some heavy lifting with Transitway grade-separation between Renforth and Hurontario. This could lead into that (one day), just needs a proper connection to Sq One. Also one day, a N/S subway of the same system running from Kipling to Pearson - this is integral to the vision and the reason I posted. It'd be an integrated network of smaller automated subways serving 427 corridor-East/West Mall, Pearson, Eg West, and Sauga. Be a bent cross shape, about 30km, four services: Sq One-Kipling, Sq One-Black Ck, Kipling-Pearson, Pearson-Black Ck. Drawbacks, yes. But huge benefit.
Being from Etobicoke, and not Scarborough, I'm not precious and don't oppose the concept of across the platform transfer. So I'm quite happy if people change vehicles at Mount Dennis. But I suspect that it will be decades before the Ontario Line (whatever it becomes) will be ready to push west from Exhibition. And the marketability of a through ride from Pearson to Eglinton east of Mount Dennis seems too desirable to pass up. So, keep Eglinton West as LRT for now, but build it with Ontario Line clearance specs so that it can be converted some day when the Ontario Line reaches Mount Dennis.

If the OL ends up being something other than vanilla TTC subway, perhaps it and the Crosstown spec's ought to converge somehow, so that Crosstown can be upgraded to the same vehicle parameters some day. I continue to wonder if Eglinton will exceed three-LRV tram capacity sooner than we predict.

I definitely like your idea of integrating with the Mississauga busway. I can see an eventual interleaved line that has service Pearson to MCC, Pearson to the east, and MCC to the east. A transfer for some at Mount Dennis doesn't strike me as a showstopper in that.

- Paul
 

Bureaucromancer

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On the one hand, if we're doing this, high floor LRV gets you both (physically, stations are another matter) compatible with Eglinton and delivers OL capacity. If we really need to upgrade Eglinton at some point, platform height increases are one of the few options that don't seem liable to be completely infeasible, though the real capacity difference between three car low floor and three car high floor isn't as big as perception, or the reality of Flexity floorplans, suggest. My suspicion is that one way or another Eglinton will end up running the Alstom cars with the Flexities shifted elsewhere.

On the other, I've actually been moving away from thinking that the Mississauga busway should get rail - certainly not in a form that removes bus access. It's long haul component is really quite important to it's function, and the section of the line in question has, inherent to it's location, reasonably frequent services going in at least five directions after leaving the transitway. With rail we MIGHT get through service to Eglinton, Kipling and Finch, while removing GO's through service on the genuinely long haul express routes. Using it as less a rail precursor than the first portion of the 407 transitway seems to deliver a better result to me.
 
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BurlOak

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Let me improve that for you!
View attachment 204766
Volia, an extension from Science Centre to Sheppard, continue eastwards on Sheppard to STC instead of Sheppard/McCowan and the follow the SRT extension alignment to Centennial College and Malvern. The ultimate line that killed 5 birds with one stone.
I know you're joking, but this still makes more sense.
204786
 

Rainforest

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Anyone think it'd be a good idea for Eglinton West to be a completely separate line from Crosstown? Hear me out. We know the Prov now wants this to be fully grade-separated (ie a "subway"). But since it's connected to the rest of Crosstown the line wouldn't be a subway by default. This could actually be one. Two car trains. Sort of makes sense to do it this way since 1) Crosstown uses hefty low-floor vehicles designed for urban tram use. Not exactly a vehicle befitting of full grade-separation in the suburbs. And 2) Crosstown east of Kennedy is dead, all configurations. So the line is really a shell of its former vision with room to play around. Also full Crosstown stations would be 90m long, this would be half those lengths (less cost).

But there's more. Sauga has done some heavy lifting with Transitway grade-separation between Renforth and Hurontario. This could lead into that (one day), just needs a proper connection to Sq One. Also one day, a N/S subway of the same system running from Kipling to Pearson - this is integral to the vision and the reason I posted. It'd be an integrated network of smaller automated subways serving 427 corridor-East/West Mall, Pearson, Eg West, and Sauga. Be a bent cross shape, about 30km, four services: Sq One-Kipling, Sq One-Black Ck, Kipling-Pearson, Pearson-Black Ck. Drawbacks, yes. But huge benefit.
That's an ineteresting concept; however, I still prefer a Crosstown extension to Pearson over a transfer at Mt Dennis.

1) A seemless connection from Toronto Midtown to Pearson will be very well used. Mid Etobicoke to the Spadina and Yonge subways will be popular, too.

In contrast, a seamless trip across the Mississauga / Toronto border, but ending with at transfer at Mt Dennis, will be of a limited value. Mt Dennis is not a destination on its own, and not a great transfer point for the trips between Misissauga and Toronto's downtown (yes you can take GO / RER from Mt Dennis to Union, but that's quite a detour if your origin is in Mississauga).

2) Eglinton West is the least certain part of the Ford's transit plan. They felt like they have to put something on the map in the west, since they got something for each of downtown (OL), the east (SSE), and the north (YN). Having done that, they might happily drag their feet and keep sparing the constructioin costs, until a new government gets elected and decides to revisit all plans that aren't fully under construction yet.

If revisited, Eglinton West might well return to the mostly-at-grade solution, in which case LRV is the only suitable vehicle type.
 

W. K. Lis

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Here's the link to the Toronto-Ontario Transit Update

In addition to information of the Ontario Line and the three-stop Line 2 extension, there is information on other transit projects. Here's the Eglinton West LRT extension info:

For context, over the next twenty years, the City's population is projected to grow by about 960,000 people. By 2041, the City's population will be more than 3,900,000, exceeding the Provincial Growth Plan forecasts by more than 500,000[1]. This growth will add pressure to Toronto's transit infrastructure, already in need of significant investment by all orders of government. The City and Toronto Transit Commission have identified state of good repair and growth needs totaling at least $33.5 billion as per the Toronto Transit Commission Capital Investment Plan. The Province, in announcing its investment in their four priority projects (i.e., Ontario Line, three-stop Line 2 East Extension, Yonge Subway Extension and Eglinton West Light Rail Transit), has estimated an investment of at least $28.5 billion. Taken together, this represents a more than $60 billion in transit investment, critical to maintaining the safety and reliability of the existing system and growing the system to meet mobility demands of the City and region.
Based on the Ontario Line proposal, and the level of design completed to date in respect to the Line 2 East Extension (3-stop), the City and Toronto Transit Commission believe the projects as proposed have the ability to deliver positive benefits to Toronto's transit network, and are therefore supportable in principle. Both projects have elements that are similar to projects previously considered by Council and as such have the potential to bring similar positive benefits to the City, including contributing to the relief of Line 1. Further, both projects will enhance the transit network by providing new higher-order transit lines throughout the city including to equity-seeking communities. The City and Toronto Transit Commission have received limited information regarding the Eglinton West Light Rail Transit and the future plans for the Yonge Subway Extension to date and will continue to work with the Province to better understand the benefits of those projects.
In summary, the Provincial proposal provides the following:
...
- Funding for State of Good Repair Needs and Transit Expansion - The Province's proposal indicates that it would not seek capital contributions from the City for the Province's four priority expansion projects (Ontario Line, Line 2 East Extension, Yonge Subway Extension, and Eglinton West Light Rail Transit), in accordance with the commitment that the City will redirect the capital contributions it would have otherwise been expected to make toward incremental investments in the state-of-good-repair needs of the system, as illustrated in the letter attached from the Chief Executive Officer, Toronto Transit Commission, Rick Leary. The Province would also consider the redirection of these funds to investment in other transit expansion priorities identified by Council, based on a fully developed business case, and subject to credible progress to the relief of the state of good repair backlog in the subway system.
...
As a required part of this arrangement, the City would redirect the funds it would have otherwise considered spending, on the Relief Line South, Line 2 East Extension, Eglinton West Light Rail Transit and Yonge Subway Extension projects toward the Toronto Transit Commission state of good repair backlog and other transit expansion priorities as determined by the City.
Eglinton West Light Rail Transit:

- City staff have completed the Initiation and Development phase of the Toronto segment of the project, but Council has made no determination as to the preferred option for the Toronto segment.​
- Design is at an early stage with only a class 4 cost estimate, and a final design, including number of stops and potential grade separations has not been decided by Council. The staff recommended option of an at-grade Light Rail Transit in Item EX4.1 had a preliminary cost estimate of $1.8 billion.​
- Under the terms of the Agreement-in-Principle, Toronto would have been responsible for 100% of the capital costs of the Eglinton West Light Rail Transit for the Toronto segment, subject to agreement on the scope of the project between the parties through the stage-gate process outlined in the Agreement-in-Principle.​
- Capital contributions to Eglinton West Light Rail Transit are unfunded.​
Redirection of Funds:

The Provincial proposal is based on the principle that each of the City and Province will be responsible for a proportional share of the required investment in state of good repair and expansion, representing an incremental investment in transit in Toronto. Below is a summary of staff's assessment of the minimum amount of City capital that will be redirected to incremental subway State of Good Repair and other City transit expansion priorities:

...

- $1.8 billion in unfunded capital contributions for the Eglinton West Light Rail Transit can be redirected once a funding source is identified.
The Province has conveyed in their letters a nominal expectation of City contributions based on committed amounts to the one-stop Line 2 East Extension and the Eglinton West Light Rail Transit, as well as a 27 percent share of the current estimate for the Ontario Line and a pro rata share of the Yonge Subway Extension. The Province has communicated that they estimate this contribution to be approximately $6 billion.
 

innsertnamehere

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"Capital contributions to Eglinton West Light Rail Transit are unfunded."

"$1.8 billion in unfunded capital contributions for the Eglinton West Light Rail Transit can be redirected once a funding source is identified. "
The entire agreement makes clear that it will be funded from provincial coffers.

It's a go, but Metrolinx hasn't started work on it yet.
 

sixrings

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I thought the ttc chair said based on the Ontario line agreement they would have an additional 5 billion to spend.
 

ADRM

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I thought the ttc chair said based on the Ontario line agreement they would have an additional 5 billion to spend.
The province has let the City off the hook for its share of capital dollars for the Eglinton West LRT, Ontario Line, Scarborough Subway, and Yonge North Extension, under the assumption that the City will use money that was notionally allocated to those projects to SOGR and/or capital funding for other projects (in which the province would presumably not be involved).
 

W. K. Lis

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I wouldn't even know what plans they'd use as they studied everything in this corridor. I'm good with at grade in medium.
Except that Doug Ford lives in the Eglinton Avenue West & Kipling Avenue neighbourhood. He does NOT want to see the plebs in a rapid transit vehicle, if he drives by them in his SUV. That's why he wants to see (wrong term, should be "not see", but you get the gist) the Eglinton West extension underground, if he can.
 

crs1026

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^We’ve debated this at length before. You can be sure that Ford would lean to an underground solution, but there was lots of argument as to why an at grade solution might not be the best thing, at places anyways. The TTC proposal seemed willing to trade off things in the general direction of mediocrity, er, streetcar quality.

This is a case of Ford nudging the scales over the tipping point, sure, but the result might have landed there on its own.

- Paul
 

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