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Eglinton-Crosstown Corridor Debate

What do you believe should be done on the Eglinton Corridor?

  • Do Nothing

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Build the Eglinton Crosstown LRT as per Transit City

    Votes: 140 37.0%
  • Revive the Eglinton Subway

    Votes: 226 59.8%
  • Other (Explain in post)

    Votes: 8 2.1%

  • Total voters
    378

RedRocket191

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I was replying to second in pi who suggested a subway in the central section (keele-laird) and feeder buses at either end, which could possibly be built for the same cost as the whole pearson-kennedy transit city line.

Oh ok nevermind then.
 

officedweller

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Elevated guideway for MKIIs would work west and east of the underground section. From pics posted, those areas look relatively "suburban" in nature. If the elevated guideway is low in height and off to one side of the roadway, the impact is much less than if you place it elevated in the middle of the road. That's because elevated stations at the side of the road are smaller scale than stations in the middle of the road (which require additional height for mezzanine overpasses to reach the sidewalks).

i.e. No. 3 Rd. in Richmond (This is Canada Line which has wider trains/bigger guideway than MKIIs) - pics from Tafryn's blog:

http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/

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Note the guideway is only single track at this terminus:
KICX2476.jpg
 
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kettal

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What's wrong with the way the tracks are laid out on Allen? Is it the stop spacing or the actual way the tracks aren't underground?

It makes for a street that is very ugly and miserable to be around. Personally I'll take St Clair over Allen Rd any day.
 

Second_in_pie

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It makes for a street that is very ugly and miserable to be around. Personally I'll take St Clair over Allen Rd any day.
First of all, there are some other reasons why I would find Allen ugly and miserable other than the Subway. The Real point I want to make is that it could be just like St. Clair too. Allen Road was just the first example that came to mind.
 

glesco

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The decision to make the Canada Line elevated in Richmond is due to local conditions not applicable to Toronto. Namely, Richmond, or Lula Island, is a delta island of the fraser river and is a very sanding texture. It would be very costly to build underneath and disastrious in the case of an earthquake. These were the primary drivers to make it elevated.

The section of the Canada Line, in Vancouver city under Cambie Street, where these considerations are not applicable, was constructed underground by cut and cover.
 

golodhendil

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^ IIRC, the reason why Canada Line is underground in Vancouver proper is because residents along Cambie vehemently opposed to any sort of above ground arrangement, or else the line would have been on an elevated guideway like in Richmond. The Millennium Line going through Burnaby, without meeting such opposition, is elevated/at grade for the majority of its length.
 

CapitalSeven

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Back in '92, when they were planning the Eglinton subway (the first time), the TTC did in fact propose building the line as partly elevated/partly open cut and running the Bombardier MKII on it instead of heavy rail, in order to save about 250 million. At the public info meeting I went to, the public almost literally beat the idea to death. You could just about see the torches and pitchforks. It makes a certain sense from an engineering perspective, but I can't think of any politician who could make it happen, or who would even try.
 

Amphibius

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And this is what the NIMBY mentality is all about:

Obstruct the progress as much as possible --> delay the progress as much as possible --> hope to fulfill the special self-interests at the end (kill the project, gain political attention, etc. etc.)

Just because you can rationalize your NIMBYism, that doesn't justify it. The public sector can never satisfy every request of private-interest groups and, IMO, if it continues to kiss-arse to this extent; nothing long-term sustainable and socially progressive will ever get past the planning stage to be built.

And who loses out then? Answer... we all do!

Property values are dependent on travel times to/from major employment centres, and they can increase by 3% to upwards of 40% when accessible to rail. So for lower income neighbourhoods, the benefit of accessibility to rail far outweighs the trivial nuisances of the rail attributed to noise, and visual intrusion~ things we may as well critique of all vehicular traffic and urban living in general.

Maybe what we need to do here is stop being so worried about making our streets look like they won't have trains on them and start acclimatizing to the fact that with true transit signal priority in place; Transit City LRT will provide widespread positive implications for fast and reliable crosstown commutes, triggering urban development, driving business into proximal merchant stores, reducing our dependency on cars to get around, etc.
 

W. K. Lis

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To make any public transit project viable, we need density. A subway needs more density than a light rail line, a light rail line needs more than a streetcar, a streetcar needs more than a bus, and a bus needs more than a car.

There will be developers who would want to build projects that will not only support public transit, but add customers to the area's retailers.

The Spadina HRT subway was put down the middle of the Allen Road. Not very high density for a subway. To add more density to the Spadina, the city is looking at revitalizing Lawrence-Allen, a couple of stations above Eglinton West. One part of the project is the decking of the Allen, similar to how they decked the Yonge HRT Subway between St. Clair and Rosedale stations.

We can expect to see other (maybe smaller) projects along Eglinton to increase the density to make the line viable. There are high-rises on Eglinton already, but I have seen notice boards at Eglinton and Martin Grove for projects for more buildings. I expect to see other notice boards coming up once they decide where the storage yards and station entrances are decided upon. So be on the lookout for those notice boards at the side of the road.
 

Second_in_pie

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To make any public transit project viable, we need density. A subway needs more density than a light rail line, a light rail line needs more than a streetcar, a streetcar needs more than a bus, and a bus needs more than a car.

There will be developers who would want to build projects that will not only support public transit, but add customers to the area's retailers.

The Spadina HRT subway was put down the middle of the Allen Road. Not very high density for a subway. To add more density to the Spadina, the city is looking at revitalizing Lawrence-Allen, a couple of stations above Eglinton West. One part of the project is the decking of the Allen, similar to how they decked the Yonge HRT Subway between St. Clair and Rosedale stations.

We can expect to see other (maybe smaller) projects along Eglinton to increase the density to make the line viable. There are high-rises on Eglinton already, but I have seen notice boards at Eglinton and Martin Grove for projects for more buildings. I expect to see other notice boards coming up once they decide where the storage yards and station entrances are decided upon. So be on the lookout for those notice boards at the side of the road.
Dang I thought I was the only person who had their eye on the land around Lawrence (and all the other stations on the expressway, for that matter.)

I agree with all of those points. Eglinton has enough room for much more density, and a subway would easily promote more high rise development, like what is already happening. Much more than LRT would, for that matter.

EDIT: Haha something funny about the city's project name. Lawrence-Allen Revitalization Program, or LARP for short :p
 

Eug

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And this is what the NIMBY mentality is all about:

Obstruct the progress as much as possible --> delay the progress as much as possible --> hope to fulfill the special self-interests at the end (kill the project, gain political attention, etc. etc.)
This is not NIMBYism. I think the vast majority of the city's residents would be against it.

The pictures of that Richmond line are absolutely hideous. I don't live in the area, yet I absolutely agree. Don't even consider building such an abomination along Eglinton.
 

kettal

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Curse those nimbys like Jane Jacobs who prevented the Annex from being torn down for a highway!!
;)
 

nfitz

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An elevated skytrain down Eglinton through Yonge would be horrid. However I just don't see this being a major concern in Scarborough. I'd think given the state of the Golden Mile - little but parking lots and car dealerships - that this would be the rare place that an elevated structure would be an improvement! And if given a choice between that, and removing the ability to cross Eglinton with a car except at the occasional intersection, that most people would prefer this.
 

scarberiankhatru

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A tunnel is the only real option for the central portion, but a shallow trench (not elevated) makes the most sense for the rest of the line, both in Etobicoke and in Scarborough, where Eglinton is lined mostly by metres of parking lots and grass. If the city is convinced that Eglinton will be Avenueized, anyway, this means redevelopment along Eglinton, which means many opportunities to deck over the trenched portions at low or no cost to governments.
 

Hipster Duck

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To make any public transit project viable, we need density. A subway needs more density than a light rail line, a light rail line needs more than a streetcar, a streetcar needs more than a bus, and a bus needs more than a car.

David Gunn retired at just the right time. The public transit expert of the 21st century has arrived.
 

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