East Bayfront: Bayside (Waterfront Toronto/Hines/Tridel, Pelli Clark Pelli et al)

[Mike in TO]

Perhaps it may be appropriate to seperate the two East Bayfront threads (Parkside and Bayside) as the projects are moving to more advanced stages and are on different parcels of land.

The Bayside bids were just submitted last week and from some sneak peaks I've seen the judging panels are going to have a difficult decision ahead of them - the real winners will be the new residents of the community and Toronto citizens as the scale & quality of this project is going to really change the perception of the waterfront.

Bidding teams for the 13-acre Bayside site (1.7 million square feet of residential and commercial / mixed use), south of Queens Quay East, between Lower Sherbourne Street and Parliament Street are (This is following the RFQ process):

• The Cadillac Fairview Corporation Limited, Daniels Corporation, Fram Building Group Ltd., Albanese Development Corporation;
• Menkes Development Ltd., AEW Capital Management LP, Hines;
• Walker Corporation Pty Ltd., Cityzen Development Corporation;

The RFP is now in mid-process with the comprehensive bids having just been submitted - these bids detail all aspects of the financial and business plan, general concept design and various other related aspects of the proposal.
The selection process is based on a number of different measures - while Urban Toronto will eventually have the renderings from the winning bid posted, a lot of wieght in the selection process is given to the financial aspects of the project and other factors such as unit mix and affordable housing components. The final choice for the development teams for each project is expected in the coming months.

 

[luxome]

aw man, too bad Daniel will take part in this project. Now this redevelopment is all ruined.

 

[interchange42]

Luxome, you do not need to repost the whole of a post immediately before yours, so it has been removed. Secondly, if you are going to dump on a developer without explaining why, you might as well spell their name correctly: useless posts are more likely to have their intended effect when the poster does not shoot themselves in the foot. Thirdly, what, have Daniels ruined the Bell Lightbox/Festival Tower for example? I don't like everything that Daniels has erected in Toronto, but their name is not the kiss of death. Fourth: Daniels are part of one team of developers out of three who are bidding on designing and building this portion of the waterfront; they have not necessarily won yet. Finally: Fram building group is in the same team, and Fram have done a great job (mostly with architect Ralph Giannone) on Mississauga's waterfront in Port Credit... so I am rooting for that team.

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[interchange42]

This thread will be for following general progress on the 13 acre Bayside parcel. As specific sites go through planning approvals and marketing, they will get their own threads.

DSC: your indexing idea for threads has been moved to the appropriate thread in the Forum Issues section.

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[interchange42]

Waterfront Toronto announced the short listed development teams for two of its East Bayfront projects this week.

<snip>

Bidding teams for the 13-acre Bayside site, south of Queens Quay East, between Lower Sherbourne Street and Parliament Street are:

• The Cadillac Fairview Corporation Limited, Monarch, Fram Building Group Ltd., Albanese Development Corporation, Graziani & Corazza, Pelli Clark Pelli Architects, KPF Associates, Giannone Associates, Cobalt Engineering, Enermodal Engineering
  <snip>

Now that Monarch has gone from that list, here's hoping that they've taken G&C with them.

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[AlvinofDiaspar]

Not a big fan of Cesar Pelli either. Where is MVRDV and their first project in TO?

AoD

 

[p5connex]

Cesar Pelli is, much like KPF, a fairly safe choice. Especially when you consider Toronto's tepid enthusiasm towards architecture. Both, however do some nice work, so this is not necessarily a poor choice, just a safe one. I would like to see what MVRDV's interpretation of a Toronto building would be.

p5

 

[dcc008]

Bidding teams for the 13-acre Bayside site (1.7 million square feet of residential and commercial / mixed use), south of Queens Quay East, between Lower Sherbourne Street and Parliament Street are (This is following the RFQ process):

• The Cadillac Fairview Corporation Limited, Daniels Corporation, Fram Building Group Ltd., Albanese Development Corporation;
• Menkes Development Ltd., AEW Capital Management LP, Hines;
• Walker Corporation Pty Ltd., Cityzen Development Corporation;

Hey Mike in TO! Haven't been here long but, by browsing around different threads, it seems like you're the one with information on everything about anything.

I saw something interesting in this post. Menkes/AEW and Hines were originally two separate groups on the shortlist of bidders for the Bayside development.

Currently, you have Menkes, AEW, and Hines listed in the same group. Is this a typo or have they formed one group??

 

[marcus_a_j]

Interesting little tidbit from The Star. I wonder which development team he was part of?

Is Aubrey Dan going to secure a new theatre? My spies say the aspiring titan of Dancap Productions was hoping to put a 2,000-seat theatre on Lake Ontario via a partnership with one of the development teams shortlisted by Waterfront Toronto for the Bayside site (between Sherbourne and Parliament south of Queens Quay East). Each applicant needed to include a cultural project. Now Waterfront Toronto has tentatively selected a favoured developer, and it is apparently not Dan’s team. So does he have a Plan B?

 

[Towered]

Imagine an aA designed theatre on the waterfront...

 

[Sir Novelty Fashion]

Without knowing any details, I'm tempted to say that that's a pity, if only because "cultural projects" in these parts seem to have a 50-50 chance of being nonsense when pulled out of thin air for development purposes.

I'm thinking of the Musuem of Not Much that was supposed to occupy the L Tower's toe, or the bafflegab concept for the "Cultural Village" that's set to occupy part of Canada Square by Queen's Quay, or the landmark cultural institution that was supposed to anchor the east waterfront, where now there sits Corus.

 

[Tewder]

I agree with Sir Novelty. Commercial theatres tend to cluster together, and for good reason. Sticking one off on its own rarely works well. I was hoping that Dancap would want to add a theatre to, and build a greater presence in, Toronto's theatre/entertainment district which seems to run along Yonge or King Streets. Building a greater critical mass of theatres in the area would benefit theoverall commercial theatre scene in general, I would think.

 

[Mike in TO]

Interesting little tidbit from The Star. I wonder which development team he was part of?

I can't reveal which team the Dancap theatre was a part of except to say that the team which involved the threatre proposal is not currently in advanced negotiations with the city and therefore are not expected to win. It's unfortunate as the watefront theatre concept and the overall site plan for the bid was quite spectacular.

 

[marcus_a_j]

Mike, what are the chances that the site plans for the unsuccessful bids would be released to the public after the selection has been announced? I would love to see what each team proposed, though I doubt that Waterfront Toronto would release them considering only Great Gulf's proposal for Parkside had been released. Perhaps the plans will find their way into another Unbuilt Toronto book.

 

[Mike in TO]

^ Given that other parcels haven't had to losing bids released I'd be surprised if they were (I don't think WaterFront Toronto would want to court controversy and debate).

Keep in mind that the bids are very detailed with financial components to them as well. If they were released to the public they'd get the typical scrutiny such as on UT where most people base their opions on a 30 second glance at a rendering vs the detailed bid proposals, negotiations etc that occur over a several month period. Given that there are a lot of financial implications and detailed private commercial components to the bids nothing in detail would be permitted to be released... even the winning proposals may not have the commerical and financial info made public.