Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[syn]

You say this immediately after John Tory announced that he's doubling down work on the Eglinton East extension to Malvern, not to mention that its highly likely that Doug Ford is going to extend Sheppard East to Sheppard-McCowan if re-elected, so as it turns out, SSE isn't coming at the cost of anything else.

Just like he doubled down on Smart Track?

He and his brother also pushed the whole argument of subway = underground - that's what his folks expect at this juncture. He is a populist, not a "conservative" in the strictest sense of the word (certainly not a principled one - when expediency is at stake). Come now, don't you think someone who believe in value for money wouldn't try a little harder to find cost savings when the numbers run into the billions (and when the two lines you have mentioned are combined, 10B), if they really believed in it?

Exactly.

 

[ARG1]

Just like he doubled down on Smart Track?

SmartTrack is happening though, its just been rebranded as GO RER/GO Expansion

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

SmartTrack is happening though, its just been rebranded as GO RER/GO Expansion

Oh let's not go there - this is revisionism of fluffy JT BS. ST as proposed by JT back in whatever is NOT the GO RER as it will be. ST was meant to be a high frequency "surface subway" with a large number of stations, GO RER as it will be isn't - it is electrified GO with 15 minute frequency at best pretty much all around. And of course, ST was supposed to open in 2021. This is like saying streetcar is LRT.

AoD

 

[ARG1]

Oh let's not go there - this is revisionism. ST as proposed by JT back in whatever is NOT the GO RER as it will be. ST was meant to be a high frequency "surface subway" with a large number of stations, GO RER as it will be isn't - it is electrified GO with 15 minute frequency at best pretty much all around. And of course, ST was supposed to open in 2021.

AoD

I'm being a bit facetious when I say that but its effectively true. First I want to say that I don't like John Tory, so I'm not some John Tory fanboy who's excusing his broken promises, but the only reason why SmartTrack never took off was because it effectively fulfilled the exact same role GO RER did, frequent electrified service with frequent station. In fact a lot of proposed GO RER stations are stations that were initially proposed for SmartTrack such as Mt. Dennis, Liberty Village, and St. Clair - Old Weston. Not to mention that in the quarterly Infrastructure Ontario reports, they actually label the former SmartTrack stations like Lawrence East as SmartTrack, even though it refers to the GO RER stations. While its not exactly what Tory proposed, GO RER/Expansion is effectively the evolution of his original idea.

 

[kEiThZ]

I thought Smart Track was supposed to be 15 min service.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I thought Smart Track was supposed to be 15 min service.

Definitely not when JT proposed it. - 5-10 minute at peak.

I'm being a bit facetious when I say that but its effectively true. First I want to say that I don't like John Tory, so I'm not some John Tory fanboy who's excusing his broken promises, but the only reason why SmartTrack never took off was because it effectively fulfilled the exact same role GO RER did, frequent electrified service with frequent station. In fact a lot of proposed GO RER stations are stations that were initially proposed for SmartTrack such as Mt. Dennis, Liberty Village, and St. Clair - Old Weston. Not to mention that in the quarterly Infrastructure Ontario reports, they actually label the former SmartTrack stations like Lawrence East as SmartTrack, even though it refers to the GO RER stations. While its not exactly what Tory proposed, GO RER/Expansion is effectively the evolution of his original idea.

Smarttrak never took off because the original proposal it is based on - by the SSRA - is BS. GO RER can stand on its' own without it being JT's evolution of an idea, so let's not give JT the credit he doesn't deserve. Also, one of the most important litmus test of ST - service delivery (not to construction start - actual service) in 7 years - is an utter failure - even if you give the benefit of the doubt and equate ST to RER. What more should be said about it?

AoD

 

[kEiThZ]

While the whole delay and sordid history sucks, I really don't see how Scarborough is all that badly of when what is proposed gets built.

In the next 10-15 years, Scarborough will get a completely revamped Stouffville and Lakeshore East GO lines, the Bloor Danforth extension, Eglinton Crosstown and Eglinton East, and possibly something on Sheppard. Heck, they are probably going to get a stop on VIA's HFR line too.

The last 20 years sucked. But I'd say it's looking up now.

 

[Coolstar]

Definitely not when JT proposed it. - 5-10 minute at peak.



Smarttrack never took off because the original proposal it is based on - the SSRA - is BS. GO RER can stand on its' own without it being JT's evolution of an idea. Let's not give JT the credit he doesn't deserve. Also, one of the most important litmus test of ST - service delivery in 7 years - is an utter failure. What more should be said about it?


AoD

If you read the RER documents, 5-10 min peak is still proposed for Stouffville, 10 min off-peak, as well as 10 min service both at peak and off-peak for Kitchener. That's the length of the SmartTrack corridor no?

 

[ARG1]

If you read the RER documents, 5-10 min peak is still proposed for Stouffville, 10 min off-peak, as well as 10 min service both at peak and off-peak for Kitchener. That's the length of the SmartTrack corridor no?

View attachment 288436

View attachment 288437

Longer actually. SmartTrack iirc terminated at Mt. Dennis on the western end, unlike Kitchener RER which will terminate at Bramalea.

Point is GO RER is effectively just an upgraded version of SmartTrack, and kept a lot of ideas SmartTrack initially had, so I don't think its unfair to say that SmartTrack was just an irrelevant footnote from a random politician.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Longer actually. SmartTrack iirc terminated at Mt. Dennis on the western end, unlike Kitchener RER which will terminate at Bramalea.

Point is GO RER is effectively just an upgraded version of SmartTrack, and kept a lot of ideas SmartTrack initially had, so I don't think its unfair to say that SmartTrack was just an irrelevant footnote from a random politician.

Actaully no, it terminates at ACC:

SmartTrack Advances to the Next Stage, But... | UrbanToronto

Metrolinx and the City of Toronto started the final public review process for the SmartTrack plan. Members of the public and other interested agencies have until August 20 to comment on—or object to—the proposal.

urbantoronto.ca

AoD

 

[Coolstar]

Actaully no, it terminates at ACC:

SmartTrack Advances to the Next Stage, But... | UrbanToronto

Metrolinx and the City of Toronto started the final public review process for the SmartTrack plan. Members of the public and other interested agencies have until August 20 to comment on—or object to—the proposal.

urbantoronto.ca

AoD

Prior to 2016 yes. But that section was cut in 2016 when they decided to extend Line 5 westward instead of running SmartTrack on Eglinton.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

But that section was cut in 2016 when they decided to extend Line 5 westward instead of running SmartTrack on Eglinton.

What you have said is a post-hoc rationalization - that section was cut because the proposal of running heavy rail there is BS in the first place. And remember, the whole raison d'etre for ST - per JT - is speed - not just of travel, but of implementation. This was in the context of JT talkng down DRL.

It is best to think of ST not as a coherent project - but as an election slogan cobbled from existing ideas (from realistic to fanciful) wrapped in the lie that could be achieved in 7 years.

AoD

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Lol it’s gonna be 25 years years from the date this thread was created (RE: “Scarborough transit on its last wheels) to whenever this subway is running.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I'm just wondering if there was ever any proposals to extend the SRT to other places in Scarborough or was it desegined as it is with no thought of expansion? I know that the yard was built right up against McCowan station but could they have done something like they did with Willson yard on line 1 and build past it to extend it further?

 

[JSF-1]

I'm just wondering if there was ever any proposals to extend the SRT to other places in Scarborough or was it desegined as it is with no thought of expansion? I know that the yard was built right up against McCowan station but could they have done something like they did with Willson yard on line 1 and build past it to extend it further?

Malvern was always the ultimate goal of the SRT whether it was the current ICTS system or the original High-Speed streetcar network. After McCowan the next stops would likely have been Bellamy > Markham Road > Milner > Sheppard Ave East > Malvern Town Centre. The line would have followed the abandoned railway ROW in the area (This ROW actually used to go all the way down to what is today Warden Station).

Here's some pictures of what the extension may have been:

First is a picture of the proposed Milner Station

Second is the proposed alignment at Markham Road

Finally the proposed alignment at Sheppard. This one is odd since it has the station facing away from the railway ROW which really defeats the purpose of one day bringing the SRT to Malvern. I am certain this alignment would have been changed.