News   Apr 18, 2024
 697     0 
News   Apr 18, 2024
 6.3K     2 
News   Apr 18, 2024
 2.4K     4 

Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

When they built underpasses and overpasses in North York, Etobicoke, etc. in the 1950's, 1960's, and even 1970's, they assumed that the roads would be widened from 2 lanes to 3 lanes in each directions. This photo is from Lawrence Avenue West, just west of Caledonia Road. It is 3 lanes under the railway, however, 2 lanes east and west of it. They did put in bicycle lanes but left it as three traffic lanes. It would have been better if they raise the bicycle lane to be level with the sidewalk (to avoid the hill climb), but they do have the budget for the automobile but not bicycles.

Symington Ave. is also pretty stark with its underpass. It goes from narrow two-lane road:

...to 4-lane suburban arterial style underpass:

...and back to two lanes plus parking:

This underpass literally has a lot of room for improvement.
 
Symington Ave. is also pretty stark with its underpass. It goes from narrow two-lane road:

...to 4-lane suburban arterial style underpass:

...and back to two lanes plus parking:

This underpass literally has a lot of room for improvement.
Due to late 20th century thinking, they assumed that all the roads will be widened for the automobile and buses. Buses "needing" 3.3 m traffic lanes, while streetcars "needing" 3.1 m traffic lanes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vic
I'm not a regular on this road, by any means, but I have to say, when I have been out there, most of it doesn't currently function that way. Its currently only a single lane NB, and only 2 short sections of centre turn lane.

Outside of the bit w/the highway interchange (and north to Sheppard), I think it functions in a way that would probably be fine w/protected bike lanes.

Now, here's the thing..............this project is adding a NB lane, AND adding additional centre turning lane. That IS a real problem, because they are actually creating the conditions for far greater speed.

I could live with the one new NB lane..........but going to a 5-lane configuration is just a step too far. It also means the road widening is more about the car than pedestrians or cyclists.
Even currently, the speed limit is 60km/h. I can't say as to how fast cars actually drive, but I can't imagine they drive much slower than the speed limit, and 60km/h is already terrifying for cyclists. I elaborate on this more at the end of my post.

Also, just for some clarification, the link posted earlier by dullturtle06 shows the plan is to only have a centre turn lane north of the strip mall, in order to service the driveways along that section, with no turn lane south of it.

I'm iffy on this one. Unless the trail is curbside, on one side of the road only, I can't see anyway to squeeze it in without removing all the trees on one side.

Just like cyclists, the trees need room; also, if you put a trail in at-grade w/the boulevard, and then salt it in the winter, you will almost certainly kill the landscaping .

You do an MT on Eglinton West, because the ROW was wide enough for an 8-lane expressway; most arterials don't have space that is that wide; certainly Pt. Union does not.
The space is tight in some places, especially on the east side, but I do think it is possible though - A MUT solution actually takes up less total paved width. The current proposal has two 1.6m bike lanes, two 0.5m buffers, and two 2.1m sidewalks, for a total of 8.4m width of paved cycling/pedestrian infrastructure. Replacing that with two 3.5m MUTs is only 7m. Here's a breakdown by section of road:

South of Conference Bl, there's plenty of room for a 3.5m+ MUT on both sides of the road by widening the existing sidewalk.

Between Conference Bl and Lawson/Fanfare, I'd say the west sidewalk has plenty of room to be widened, but the east side is a bit tight. However, the currently proposed bike lanes and buffers take up 4.2m of width, so if the proposed west curb stays in the same place, then the proposed east curb can move west 4.2m, creating the space for a MUT and decent buffer on the east side, without removing any more trees than is currently planned. The existing sidewalk in these locations can be removed, which would actually benefit trees that are currently too close to the sidewalk.

North of that, in most locations, there appears to be room to widen the proposed sidewalk in most places. A couple extra tree removals would be necessary but it looks like this is generally offset by the trees that would no longer need to be removed if the center turn lane and proposed bike lanes are removed. A couple locations are really tight where the proposed sidewalk is squeezed between the curb and the property line or a retaining wall. However, the proposed sidewalk is 2.1m, and the proposed bike lane and buffer is 2.1m. That's total 4.2m of space, which is enough for the MUT that replaces both, with a decent buffer too.

Obviously I'm not a civil engineer or anything, but from an hour and a half of looking at Google Maps and the proposed plans, I'd say it's probably doable, without removing extra trees.

I think MUTs should be the default solution for suburban roads with low pedestrian and cyclist volumes - MUTs, in addition to being safer and more comfortable to use (further elaborated below), have other advantages to bike lanes with concrete curbs/barriers - it's one thing to plow in winter, instead of two, and they don't become practically unusable in winter. Protected cycle tracks get filled with slush in winter.

I also worry that if you isolate cyclists from the road (not separate, isolate); you run the risk of never educating drivers on how to interact w/cyclists; and never educating cyclists how to use the road.

I'm pro high quality, separated bike lanes, but want motorists and cyclists to interact (safely).
I would disagree with that sentiment.

Interactions between high-speed motor traffic and cyclists must be minimized as much as possible, and any interactions must be made as clear as possible as to who has priority etc. There is no way around this. Human reaction times are slow, and at 60km/h, a car will probably travel like 5-10m before the driver can react to something. And as for any collision, it's just physics. Car at 60-70km/h + cyclist = dead cyclist, plain and simple.

And the psychological component too. Human brains know instinctively very well that a car at 60-70km/h + a cyclist = a dead cyclist, so there are not a lot of people who are comfortable with cycling beside high speed motor traffic. It's positively terrifying when a truck or bus zooms past you 40cm away at 60-70km/h while you are on a bike. A 20cm concrete curb or barrier is not going to change that significantly, even if it actually does make it safer for the cyclist.

If we want to make a route that is actually friendly to cyclists and will actually be cycled on by normal people, we have two choices:
1. Slow down car traffic (30km/h) so that drivers have more time to respond to stimuli, cyclists don't feel like they're about to die when being passed by a car, and collisions don't automatically result in the death of anybody cycling
2. Allow high speed motor traffic, but completely separate cars and cyclists as much as possible.

Given that the 401 interchange exists and the fact that Port Union is an arterial and the only continuous north-south route in the entire area, it does not make sense to pick Option 1. If we choose to keep Port Union as a main route for cars, then option 2 is the only option.

The Dutch didn't get everybody from seniors to children on their bikes by getting 60km/h motorists and cyclists to interact. They did it by completely isolating high speed motor traffic from cyclists. Any road in the Netherlands with a speed limit (and a road design reflecting the speed limit) of 50 km/h or more has completely isolated cycle tracks. They're basically like a second sidewalk paved in red asphalt in most cases, and usually have buffer of at least 1m between the cycle track and the road, usually more on high-speed suburban arterials.

It is also important to stress the distinction between high speed and low speed motor traffic. The Netherlands doesn't separate motor traffic and cyclists at all on local roads; instead it implements traffic calming to lower speeds to 30km/h, where it becomes possible for cars and cyclists to interact safely. These are the interactions we can promote, not ones with 60km/h traffic.
 
Even currently, the speed limit is 60km/h.

It should be lowered to 50km/ph, max.

60km/h is already terrifying for cyclists. I elaborate on this more at the end of my post.

I understand its scary for some, and do favour lower speeds; and proper protection.

Though I must admit I find the word terrifying a bit much; but then again, I have been skydiving, so my tolerance is probably in a different place than many.

Protected cycle tracks get filled with slush in winter.

Not engaging in a better/worse debate in general on this vs MUT; would say, this does not need to be the case for protected bike lanes. That's a design flaw.

Proper grading, permeability at the curb, and heated grates at the drains should address this; and should be done during a road reconstruction. I would add these should all be addressed if there were no bike lane as it makes road better/safer for all users.

If we want to make a route that is actually friendly to cyclists and will actually be cycled on by normal people, we have two choices:
1. Slow down car traffic (30km/h)

I can't agree we need to come down to 30km/ph on major roads; that's just too slow. I think that's fine for local side streets.
2. Allow high speed motor traffic, but completely separate cars and cyclists as much as possible.

I don't really want expressways for roads; I barely want them as expressways.

I do agree, where permitted speeds exceed 30km/ph, and especially 40km/ph, its ideal to have a measure of physical separation.

Given that the 401 interchange exists and the fact that Port Union is an arterial and the only continuous north-south route in the entire area, it does not make sense to pick Option 1. If we choose to keep Port Union as a main route for cars, then option 2 is the only option.

I'm picking option 3. (yes, I'm making that one up! :D )

- The Highway interchange should not have any slip lanes coming on/off the highway. It should be modified to be hard-right, hard-left, at a regulated traffic-lit intersection only.
- Speed limit should be not more than 50km/ph
- Bike lanes should be separated, preferably by the low-slung jersey barriers.
- Road width should not exceed 4 lanes at any point; and be less where practical.
- Cyclists should enjoy protected intersections at all intersections along this road.
 
Last edited:
It should be lowered to 50km/ph, max.



I understand its scary for some, and do favour lower speeds; and proper protection.

Though I must admit I find the word terrifying a bit much; but then again, I have been skydiving, so my tolerance is probably in a different place than many.



Not engaging in a better/worse debate in general on this vs MUT; would say, this does not need to be the case for protected bike lanes. That's a design flaw.

Proper grading, permeability at the curb, and heated grates at the drains should address this; and should be done during a road reconstruction. I would add these should all be addressed if there were no bike lane as it makes road better/safer for all users.



I can't agree we need to come down to 30km/ph on major roads; that's just too slow. I think that's fine for local side streets.


I don't really want expressways for roads; I barely want them as expressways.

I do agree, where permitted speeds exceed 30km/ph, and especially 40km/ph, its ideal to have a measure of physical separation.



I'm picking option 3. (yes, I'm making that one up! :D )

- The Highway interchange should not have any slip lanes coming on/off the highway. It should be modified to be hard-right, hard-left, at a regulated traffic-lit intersection only.
- Speed limit should be not more than 50km/ph
- Bike lanes should be separated, preferably by the low-slung jersey barriers.
- Road width should exceed 4 lanes at any point; and be less where practical.
- Cyclists should enjoy protected intersections at all intersections along this road.
typo?
- Road width should exceed 4 lanes at any point; and be less where practical.
I think you meant Road widths should not exceed 4 lanes based on previous comments
 
Symington Ave. is also pretty stark with its underpass. It goes from narrow two-lane road:

...to 4-lane suburban arterial style underpass:

...and back to two lanes plus parking:

This underpass literally has a lot of room for improvement.
I've always thought that this underpass should have separated bike lanes. I can't imagine that the capacity is needed given that the street is only two lanes on either side. It's really the only low-hanging fruit for a north-south cycling-friendly crossing of the rail corridor between Osler and Bartlett, though another safe crossing to the east would be welcome too.
 
I've always thought that this underpass should have separated bike lanes. I can't imagine that the capacity is needed given that the street is only two lanes on either side. It's really the only low-hanging fruit for a north-south cycling-friendly crossing of the rail corridor between Osler and Bartlett, though another safe crossing to the east would be welcome too.
I would have raised the bike lanes up to be more level with the sidewalk.
 
I understand its scary for some, and do favour lower speeds; and proper protection.

Though I must admit I find the word terrifying a bit much; but then again, I have been skydiving, so my tolerance is probably in a different place than many.
Most people won't tolerate it due to safety.
 
I can't agree we need to come down to 30km/ph on major roads; that's just too slow. I think that's fine for local side streets.
Cyclists should only be mixing on streets designed for 30kph. Main roads should have full separation.

I would have raised the bike lanes up to be more level with the sidewalk.
I don't think elevation is as important as lateral separation.
 
Cyclists should only be mixing on streets designed for 30kph. Main roads should have full separation.


I don't think elevation is as important as lateral separation.
Lateral is so much more important imo, just look at this proposal for "REimagine Yonge"
I would not bike there being so close to 60km an hour cars speeding by
Screenshot_20210511-190613.png
 
Lateral is so much more important imo, just look at this proposal for "REimagine Yonge"
I would not bike there being so close to 60km an hour cars speeding by
View attachment 318943
Especially when they can just put the trees between the cycle track and the street.
 

Back
Top