W. K. Lis
Superstar
From link.
Can't do this here in Toronto, because it might anger the automobile gods, and would be cut from the transportation budget anyways to save nickles and dimes.
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Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)
- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
From link.
Can't do this here in Toronto, because it might anger the automobile gods, and would be cut from the transportation budget anyways to save nickles and dimes.
Neutrino
Senior Member
^Do you not get tired of posting the same malarkey over and over
WislaHD
Superstar
What are the demographics of those that still bike on the road despite the existence of a bike lane?
I imagine it is not representative population sample, and that they overwhelmingly lean towards lycra.
mind_the_gap
Active Member
I've been following this forum for over a decade now, and it's exactly this kind of rhetoric that does nothing but divide this city further between downtown (Metro), and the suburbs. Your "automobile gods" crap is getting so tiresome, and provides nothing constructive to this forum.
Btw, I do agree with you on building proper cycling infrastructure instead of wasting money on these half-assed implementations.
I loved not owning a car when I lived in Northern Europe - being able to depend on buses, trains, and my bike and board to get around. There wasn't this ridiculous war against cars there. Instead, people recognized the importance of providing adequate alternatives to driving, before pressuring people to minimize/give up using their cars. Living here in the suburbs, that isn't always an option though.
Don't get me wrong, I'd agree with charging drivers a "congestion charge" to drive into the core (like London), providing streetcars lines without ROWs dedicated lanes and eliminating on-street parking along those routes, and providing separated bike lanes whenever possible when a street is rebuilt, among many other things...
Quite frankly, I think you and I would agree on many things. However, I (and I'm sure many forum members) are deeply annoyed by your anti-car rhetoric. Try raising a family in the suburbs away from an arterial road without a car. Not all of us can afford to live in downtown Toronto.
Ps. Why should I trade in a 20-30 minute drive down the 404/DVP to Woodbine Beach with my family for what can easily turn into a 1-1.5 hour ordeal on the TTC (especially with the weekend Line 1 closures).
I'll let other members chime in now. I just needed to unburden what's been pissing me off for a very long time. I'm honestly surprised the mods haven't intervened yet with the amount of times you've repeatedly posted this junk.
WislaHD
Superstar
^ Suburbia is one thing.
Why do we cater to automobiles in our transit friendly, close-together, small-ROW streets downtown?
Why do we cater to automobiles in our transit friendly, close-together, small-ROW streets downtown?
Neutrino
Senior Member
@mind_the_gap hear hear
Northern Light
Superstar
Yes, Mr. Lis does like to use slightly o'er the top rhetoric from time to time; but your complaint about same isn't any less hyperbolic.
I don't know when you last lived in Europe, but I think you would find the anti-car measures quite striking in many cities, and unlike Mr. Lis, I'm talking action not discussion.
Copenhagen has all but banned cars from the core; Amsterdam is slashing the parking supply by an enormous amount.
Paris has removed a highway, and is adding bike and transit-only lanes here, there and everywhere.
If you liked driving in any of those cities, you would probably feel moderately put out by the changes.
Toronto has not only done nothing so drastic; Neither the City, nor Mr. Lis has proposed such either.
Yes, alternative infrastructure for transit and pedestrians and cyclists needs to be in place before one can expect a significant shift away from the car.
On the other hand, in order to do that, one is going to have to take travel lanes for cars away.
Most of suburbia is not and will not be getting subways.
What it may get is BRT or BRT-light; but that means dropping Don Mills from 6 lanes for cars to 4 with 2 exclusively for transit. Then doing the same on six-lane roads across the City like Lawrence, Ellesmere and Steeles.
Making cycling attractive will likewise require road diets on many streets.
Perhaps Mr. Lis could marginally dial back on his rhetorical flourish; but truth be told those proposals he brings to the fore are typically moderate, proven, workable, pragmatic and affordable.
That being the case, is it not fair to ask why we haven't seen more of these types of ideas being delivered here? There are three parties baring responsibility, councillors, City transportation staff and voters.
They may not be automobile gods, but they are, collectively, those who determine how are roads are designed and operated. Really there is no basis on which one could accept the way things are; which means somebody is doing something wrong.
Perhaps you'd prefer if Mr. Lis omitted his assumptions on motives; but if he does........isn't one only left wondering about competence?
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Agreed. I live downtown and am a cyclist, motorcyclist, automobile driver and pedestrian. Why can’t the system work for everyone?
DSC
Superstar
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At least in part because our City streets (at least downtown) were built for a 'different age" and we need to adapt our lives if we expect them to serve us properly. For example, few if any 'original' Cabbagetown homes have garages because their owners would not ever have had cars. Now most do so they park on the streets reducing width and using a very expensive piece of real estate for a low-value activity. As @Northern Light states so clearly above, European cities are MUCH better than we are at making hard choices: if you only have a ROW of 25 feet, how much (if any) should be allocated to parking? Add in the desire to reduce climate change and encourage more non-polluting things (cycling/walking) or transit and it is clear that we need to reduce the need for most people living in cities to own cars. Painful? YES, Desirable? Oh, YES!
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Groups of 6+ people with exercise/racing bikes in cycling shirts. So definitely not your normal causal cyclist for commuting.
MisterF
Senior Member
It's not any better than the section south of the Beaver Greenway. The trail joins the sidewalk at almost every intersection and there's nothing in the intersections themselves to let drivers know that cyclists are supposed to be there. It usually happens because the right turn lane takes precedence and everything else is secondary. I'm generally not a fan of right turn lanes - they make right turning traffic even more dangerous, especially with a half-implemented bike path in the path of drivers. They're slowly being removed in some areas as part of Vision Zero, but they're rampant in the suburbs.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
There are signs that show a bicycle path at unsignalled intersections (RIRO). However, these only appear at the driveways into the businesses and not at the major intersections, as you mention.
One sign I noticed is a sign at driveway of the plaza just south of Greenhill Ave that indicates the bicycle path, but the sign in the the opposite direction, facing away from incoming traffic so no one can see it!
Allandale25
Senior Member
Hieberrr
New Member
Shaw St from Dupont to Dewson is subject to change with the upcoming resurfacing. The city is using this as an opportunity to improve cycling infrastructure here by changing traffic flow.
www.toronto.ca
Shaw Street Safety Improvements
Shaw Street (Harbord Street to Dupont Street) and Roxton Road (Harbord Street to Bloor Street West) In June and July 2020, the City resurfaced Shaw Street, between Dupont Street and Dewson Street. This also provided an opportunity to improve safety on Shaw Street, in the segment between Harbord...
www.toronto.ca
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ADRM
Senior Member
Shaw St from Dupont to Dewson is subject to change with the upcoming resurfacing. The city is using this as an opportunity to improve cycling infrastructure here by changing traffic flow.
Shaw Street Safety Improvements
Shaw Street (Harbord Street to Dupont Street) and Roxton Road (Harbord Street to Bloor Street West) In June and July 2020, the City resurfaced Shaw Street, between Dupont Street and Dewson Street. This also provided an opportunity to improve safety on Shaw Street, in the segment between Harbord...
A couple interesting tidbits from the traffic study here are that cyclists now outnumber drivers on Shaw between Dupont and Harbord, and that the area commuting mode share is 21% bikes.