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Curitiba's bus system as model for TO

well, in Toronto there's an express bus "experiment" already. I think the double fare is a bit too steep for non-metropass+sticker users - normal fare+$1 should be sufficient to get people to try it.
 
I don't see why we need to treat it as a "premium" service. It might make sense for commuter routes (express bus from Scarb to downtown via DVP, fr'instance), but not for what I'm suggesting--that is, backbone of transit services in the outlying GTA (away from subways).
 
Im not just refering to premium fare express buses. By experimentation I mean perhaps trying new premium fare routes to see how financially viable they are as well as cross suburban express routes (for newly emerging suburban business districts), limited stop services along main and busy arterials, and other bus services (perhaps similair to VIVA). It could mean anything that goes outside of typical, TTC thinking and attempts to try new service and route structures.

For suburban areas (primarily the 905 region) LRT doesnt make a lot of sense. Services such as VIVA and systems that can provide moderately fast service via bus do however. Buses are flexible, and as mentioned above, much cheaper, especially when thrown onto arterials and given priority over other traffic.

Given that there is room for enourmous growth in transit ridership in the 905 any successes will only create, or exagerate existing problems. Once you start moving more people more effectively across the 905, you have to deal with getting them downtown. This means either feeding into main transit lines such as the subway system, which is allready under strain, or into GO trains, which means cross agency coordination to ensure people are not waiting around for 45 minutes to catch a train which may allready be near capacity. In this case you either have to expand main transit lines (back to expensive solutions) or bypass them and send them straight downtown without transferring. And without dedicated bus lanes to bypass heavy traffic, you have to raise fares to cover the financial cost of running the route which makes it less attractive and less likely to be used.

Just as subways are not the white knight of increasing transit capacity, BRTs are not either. Nor is GO, nor is LRT, nor is anything. One affects the other and in a city/region as large as Toronto/The GTA its going to take a bit of everything to make it all work.

And no matter what the answer in whatever combination, it will not be cheap.
 
"I don't see why we need to treat it as a "premium" service. It might make sense for commuter routes (express bus from Scarb to downtown via DVP, fr'instance), but not for what I'm suggesting--that is, backbone of transit services in the outlying GTA (away from subways)."

I don't really see a need to go nuts building any bus infrastructure in the 416 (other than some small particular cases). This kind of thing is better suited for Durham Region, Brampton, etc, but even then, on what scale would it be implemented? Would every arterial wide and busy enough to support it receive BRT in some fashion or just a few backbones? I'm not 100% sure what Viva is planned to morph into in a few years, but it might be pretty close to the Curitiba model.
 
I don't really see a need to go nuts building any bus infrastructure in the 416 (other than some small particular cases). This kind of thing is better suited for Durham Region, Brampton, etc, but even then, on what scale would it be implemented?

That all depends on how you want the services to function. If the purpose is transportation within municipal boundries than the requirements are going to be a lot different than if you want it to function primarily for moving commuters in and out of downtown Toronto.

Implementing service VIVA type service in Durham, Brampton et al would in itself not be overly expensive. Its when you tie it into GO, TTC and other regional and commuting services that costs skyrocket since they could easily lead to large numbers of new riders on allready stretched services. And once you start looking at options to expand GO and TTC services that is when the projects assume a scale that starts putting price tags into the billions of dollars.

Edit: In addition you have to look at the differences that exist between each municipality and city in the 905. Take Oshawa. It is located at the fringe the GTA but has some of the best regional service in the area. It has frequent GO service as well as VIA service. For Oshawa getting people from their homes to downtown means running most buses to the GO station and timing bus schedules so that waits are minimal. Whitby and Pickering would be the same more or less.

Or there is Mississauga. It has GO service at several stations, but the two lines dont have the same frequencies so essentially Port Credit would be the only logical choice for centering bus service around. But, you also have a subway line within proximity. So in this case Mississauga could chose to operate buses and LRT's within its own boundries and feed these two points, or it may be more advantagous for them to get the Bloor line extended right into the city.

Then you have a case such as Brampton which lacks GO service, and thus a direct commuter route downtown. For them they have to look at a completely different set of options such as running express buses downtown perhaps, or trying to put political pressure on the powers that be to get GO train service (which even then would not have great frequencies and would have limitations).

And the list could go on for quite some time. But it does illustrate the rather large and difficult task of trying to improve transit for local and regional purposes in a region such as the GTA where each municipality will have different requirements and needs a certain amount of autonomy yet also need to somehow integrate that into a regional plan.
 
Since when does Brampton lack GO Transit service? The Georgetown line has three stations in Brampton: Bramalea, Brampton & Mount Pleasant.

Did you mean all-day Lakeshore-type service? Because no other line other than Lakeshore has that.
 
Did you mean all-day Lakeshore-type service? Because no other line other than Lakeshore has that.

Yes. And I also didnt realize that there 3 stations for Brampton. I also didnt realize how many trips are on that line (in comparison to other lines). At the same time I had always thought Milton was a well served area (I don't know why). At least I know better now.
 
Milton has six trains in, and six trains out. But I would say it is pretty well-serviced, since there is usually a bus every half hour, at least from Erindale. They are currently lengthening the Erindale platform to 12 car length (I saw that the last time I was there), and they are also going to lengthen the platforms at other Milton stops. I suspect it's easier to lengthen the rush hour trains then to add non-rush hour trips.

Georgetown features a few non-rush hour trips, and is the only line other than Lakeshore to have any at all, I believe. So they're quite lucky in that way.

If all-day GO service was introduced on all the GO train lines, I think that would be awesome. I love trains. Although something as large as a GO train is overkill in most cases. It'd be nice if they had something that runs on rails but has a smaller capacity and is cheaper. Like a GO bus for rail.
 
If all-day GO service was introduced on all the GO train lines, I think that would be awesome. I love trains. Although something as large as a GO train is overkill in most cases. It'd be nice if they had something that runs on rails but has a smaller capacity and is cheaper. Like a GO bus for rail.

I think most people here would agree with you on that. That topic comes up almost monthly on this forum.
 
For fun, here's a picture of Curitiba's bus/tube-stops:

800px-Bus_Stops_2_curitiba_brasil.jpg
 

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