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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

I look froward to the Wayfinding initiative in 2030. Someone will again realize there is no standard being followed, everyone will agree, time will be spend creating a 400 page document with graphics and examples, then the Ontario Line signage will be revealed with a stylized symbol for subway different from the Scarborough extension signage. The accessible logo will be inside a triangle for the Ontario Line, and in a star for the Scarborough extension.
 
EnviroTO said:
I look froward to the Wayfinding initiative in 2030. Someone will again realize there is no standard being followed, everyone will agree, time will be spend creating a 400 page document with graphics and examples, then the Ontario Line signage will be revealed with a stylized symbol for subway different from the Scarborough extension signage. The accessible logo will be inside a triangle for the Ontario Line, and in a star for the Scarborough extension.
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The fact that Metrolinx is just not bothering using and adding on to the TTC standard is so infuriating.
 
Streety McCarface said:
The fact that Metrolinx is just not bothering using and adding on to the TTC standard is so infuriating.
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Who said TTC is the best choice or option to use than X place that maybe way better???
 
drum118 said:
Who said TTC is the best choice or option to use than X place that maybe way better???
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The TTC wayfinding is iconic and culturally engrained. Wayfinding is an art more than anything, and what makes wayfinding good is often quite subjective (There are objective qualities, but stuff like what font you use are unlikely to make a giant different). There is also the matter of making your system stand out from others. The TTC Logo is unique, iconic, and stands out compared to other transit logos around the world. Meanwhile the Metrolinx T looks like any other generic transit logo. The TTC has its own font that is well established within the city, and isn't old or outdated in anyway. Meanwhile Metrolinx wants to introduce a new font because... reasons. Why change what isn't broken? Do we need to standardize wayfinding? Sure. Do we need to unify all of the transit agencies under one general umbrella and have standard designs for the entire region? Sure, but why does that have to come at a cost of uniqueness and history? The TTC has a unique and iconic font, why not spread that all over the region rather than change all fonts to be something boring and generic? Why have all of the transit agencies under a boring and generic umbrella logo that barely looks different from the Boston T?
 
I'm not tied to the TTC standard or the Metrolinx standard... but I'm tied to the idea of developing a standard thinking through all the various use-cases and situations that a person trying to navigate their way would understand. Figuring out when in a journey information is relevant and irrelevant so that signs have only what they need. Using symbols that are standardized across the system so that where signs are large the symbols can be paired with descriptions, but on signs with limited space the descriptions can be left off. Using symbols not unique to Toronto that ideally are based on an international standard.

TTC isn't great either. There are signs using capital letters for everything, some that capitalize half the words for some unknown reason, there are signs that expect you to read a whole sentence to figure out which way to go, signs that tell you things that are blatantly obvious, there are bold arrows, arrows in a circle, signs with two arrows pointing the same direction, streetcar symbols that look like CLRTs, subway symbols that look like H4s, subway symbols that are just a TTC logo with the word subway under it, confusion about whether or not coloured bands go around the symbol for bus, streetcar, or subway, no clear distinction between emergency exit and regular exit, light blue means accessibility but it also means fares or line 3, etc.
 
H4F33Z said:
Lemme guess? I shared the photos on UrbanToronto, then gets on Toronto subreddit without my permission, I coincidentally scroll on Reddit and find it, then someone posts from Reddit back to Urban Toronto being unaware that it was already posted, so it came full circle.
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Perhaps next time, you should add a watermark on the photos.

They can be creative like the ones @kotsy does or they can simply be text.
 
drum118 said:
Who said TTC is the best choice or option to use than X place that maybe way better???
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Because the crosstown is to be operated by the TTC
Because the crosstown is a part of the TTC Network
Because TTC services directly integrate with the Crosstown
Because the crosstown will use TTC fares.
Because the TTC is paying for operations of the crosstown

And that is just for this line. If we were talking about GO Transit, my opinion would be far less strong on this. However, let's go over the reasons for wanting the TTC standard implemented across the region:
1. Toronto is the central city in the region. Almost every other city in the region either wouldn't exist or wouldn't be as large as they are today without Toronto.
2. Most transit users in the GTHA use the TTC. The standard is already understood by a good portion, if not a majority of transit users
3. The TTC recently redesigned and implemented a new, streamlined way finding system that cost many millions of dollars. Are we seriously going to waste money doing it over again?
4. Aspects of the TTC are seen elsewhere in the region (ie the door chimes on GO Trains and LRVs)
5. It's already a good standard.

If metrolinx wants some unifying icon they can throw it on for all I care (though I'd prefer a metrolinx logo to a T), but changing the existing fonts, roundels, icons, way finding, maps, etc seems extremely excessive and unnecessary.
 
Caledonia station on May 20, 2021:

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Streety McCarface said:
Because the crosstown is to be operated by the TTC
Because the crosstown is a part of the TTC Network
Because TTC services directly integrate with the Crosstown
Because the crosstown will use TTC fares.
Because the TTC is paying for operations of the crosstown

And that is just for this line. If we were talking about GO Transit, my opinion would be far less strong on this. However, let's go over the reasons for wanting the TTC standard implemented across the region:
1. Toronto is the central city in the region. Almost every other city in the region either wouldn't exist or wouldn't be as large as they are today without Toronto.
2. Most transit users in the GTHA use the TTC. The standard is already understood by a good portion, if not a majority of transit users
3. The TTC recently redesigned and implemented a new, streamlined way finding system that cost many millions of dollars. Are we seriously going to waste money doing it over again?
4. Aspects of the TTC are seen elsewhere in the region (ie the door chimes on GO Trains and LRVs)
5. It's already a good standard.

If metrolinx wants some unifying icon they can throw it on for all I care (though I'd prefer a metrolinx logo to a T), but changing the existing fonts, roundels, icons, way finding, maps, etc seems extremely excessive and unnecessary.
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TTC is contracted to operate the line. The initial term is 10 years. It could be privatized afterwards. So it’s not a real TTC line. The owner would maintain a say and it really depends on the operating contract. However I agree there should be consistency between the TTC and ML owned lines. So we don’t have future subway extensions with a different signage.
 
officedweller said:
Shouldn't station signage have the word 'Station' as well? (for Vancouver, SkyTrain station signs were changed to add 'Station' at some point).
How many people might think this is an alternate entrance to the Ontario Science Centre?
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Seeing as how the Ontario Science Centre is advertised as being at the corner of Don Mills and Eglinton, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a common point of confusion for people coming in from the Eglinton Line or points further north. From the intersection, you'd have to traverse through the parking lot so I wouldn't be surprised to hear about it despite the sign indicating otherwise.
I would imagine it would be good for an underground (or at least protected from the elements) connection to be built, but I think its going to be something to consider adding on to the construction of the Ontario line (which would also likely have walking transfers to the Eglinton line going by the station placement so far), but I don't think that'll happen either.
 
TorontoBun said:
Seeing as how the Ontario Science Centre is advertised as being at the corner of Don Mills and Eglinton, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a common point of confusion for people coming in from the Eglinton Line or points further north. From the intersection, you'd have to traverse through the parking lot so I wouldn't be surprised to hear about it despite the sign indicating otherwise.
I would imagine it would be good for an underground (or at least protected from the elements) connection to be built, but I think its going to be something to consider adding on to the construction of the Ontario line (which would also likely have walking transfers to the Eglinton line going by the station placement so far), but I don't think that'll happen either.
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Have people been confusing Pioneer Village Station as the actually entrance to Black Creek Pioneer Village yet?

I think most people would immediate recognized a subway (LRT) station entrance once they step foot inside.
 
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