Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[crs1026]

Just me or do none of these look anywhere close to completion?

They sure don't look like they were at a point two years ago, or a year ago, that would have allowed anyone to say confidently that the project would finish on time. Yet, that's what everyone - ML, last government's politicians, and this government's politicians - all said.

I wonder how long ago they first realised that the target date wouldn't be met.

I'm not surprised by any of the delays. In the context of a project of this size, delays and schedule slippage is to be expected. Crosstown hasn't had the kind of huge halts - construction worker fatalities, or technical showstoppers, or rework - that would imply bad management.

To me, the lesson learned is that any future transit project in this city must have an oversight/audit office that is beyond arms length from both the project sponsor and the politicians. That office has to have access to every bit of data and have a mandate to report publicly on project status - spending, work completion, and work targets - without influence from politicians or project management. Kind of a super-Auditor General, super-SIU kind of role.

The issue is truthfulness. There has been none of that on this project.

- Paul

 

[sche]

Here's a proposal for grade separating Brentcliffe to Don Mills:
It looks like there is enough space to move all of Eglinton north of the LRT tracks without moving the tracks, which could probably be built without interrupting LRT service. I think this could probably be cheaper than regrading Eglinton, since that would probably require building a taller bridge over the Don. The existing eastbound lanes could become a sidewalk and a two way cycle track (probably the most generously sized in the city, this would allow the Eglinton on the north side to be slightly less wide and thus cheaper).
Brentcliffe Portal (this one is quite a bit of a squeeze - we would probably need a big retaining wall on the north side. But, I think there's probably enough space to fit four car lanes and a narrow sidewalk on the north side (which isn't that necessary actually, given the sidewalk on the south side, so this could probably be eliminated).
Red = road, Green = cycle track + sidewalk on south side

Leslie:
Red = road, Green = cycle track + sidewalk on south side, yellow = pedestrian bridge (If we need full grade separation for ATC, then this is probably necessary), blue = stairs
The bridge over the Don would need widening and I also included a better accessible connection to ET Seton Park. The CP bridge would also need to be lengthened; this could probably be done by building a new bridge east of the existing one

Finally, the Celestica interchange would be replaced with a normal intersection, and the rest is pretty simple:

 

[CapitalSeven]

I made this crude mock-up in Paint 7 years ago, probably for this thread. Everyone ignored it then. Here it is to ignore again. Grade separate the traffic, not the transit. Then add in the station with a simple crosswalk.

 

[Voltz]

I like the idea

 

[44 North]

I made this crude mock-up in Paint 7 years ago, probably for this thread. Everyone ignored it then. Here it is to ignore again. Grade separate the traffic, not the transit. Then add in the station with a simple crosswalk.

A bit of a de-urbanization approach. But by golly it gets the job done.

 

[Steve X]

I made this crude mock-up in Paint 7 years ago, probably for this thread. Everyone ignored it then. Here it is to ignore again. Grade separate the traffic, not the transit. Then add in the station with a simple crosswalk.
View attachment 242203

Ummm no. That will destroy the Don River which would be touching the bottom of this loop. Given the accessibility consideration, there will still be a traffic signal for pedestrians crossing the tracks. This dumb ass city still haven't figure out the timing and will allow the signal to turn red when trains are approaching.

I rather they just block the Leslie intersection left turn and let the cars make their U turn at Don Mills to get to Leslie.

 

[sche]

I made this crude mock-up in Paint 7 years ago, probably for this thread. Everyone ignored it then. Here it is to ignore again. Grade separate the traffic, not the transit. Then add in the station with a simple crosswalk.
View attachment 242203

Thats actually genius! Maybe have a diamond instead of a trumpet interchange like Bayview and Lawrence to save space and lessen environmental impact or something akin to Old Leslie and Sheppard to make it less highway-like, but the area isn’t going to be urban anytime soon anyways so a bit of de-urbanization is probably fine. I do think a pedestrian bridge is necessary though (or just have stairs/elevators coming down from the bridge if we do it the Old Leslie and Sheppard way, kind of like Bayview/Hwy 7 Viva station)

 

[NoahB]

There is already a development proposed near the station.

These areas could urbanize faster than we think and de-urbanizing the intersection might not be the best idea. But then again, leaving the ELRT chocked at this location sounds worse...

 

[robmausser]

Just me or do none of these look anywhere close to completion?

You'd be surprised after the structural elements are complete how fast the "window dressing" (anything not structural) goes on. It requires way less planning and observation by engineers. Anything structural is a logistical nightmare these days and works at a snails pace.

Everything else will be relatively quick.

But id still be surprised if this opens at the anticipated date.

 

[robmausser]

I made this crude mock-up in Paint 7 years ago, probably for this thread. Everyone ignored it then. Here it is to ignore again. Grade separate the traffic, not the transit. Then add in the station with a simple crosswalk.
View attachment 242203

Its funny how we are trying to solve the human problem of terrible transit priority lights with an engineering solution.

Heres a better idea: why dont we fire all the car-centric dinosaurs in the Toronto Transportation division, and simply put a proper transit priority system in place?

Something like they do in the USA, one of the most car-centric countries in the world?

Why are we proposing to spend millions of dollars on loops to give cars the right of way?

 

[rbt]

Something like they do in the USA, one of the most car-centric countries in the world?

Yay for 10 minute frequencies during rush hour. Yes, frequency of service and the level of priority that service is granted are directly related. Cities set thresholds differently based on local street-grid, etc but you're not going to see 3 minute frequencies with railway style crossing bars in North America.

 

[hw621]

Yay for 10 minute frequencies during rush hour. Yes, frequency of service and the level of priority that service is granted are directly related. Cities set thresholds differently based on local street-grid, etc but you're not going to see 3 minute frequencies with railway style crossing bars in North America.

3 minute frequency and stuck at lights won't be a lot better than that...

 

[rbt]

3 minute frequency and stuck at lights won't be a lot better than that...

The difference is about 3.3x the passenger capacity on the 3 minute frequency version for roughly the same wait + travel time; that also translates into a better financial situation if ridership exists to fill the seats (lower operating subsidy required, significantly less capital cost per passenger, etc.).

 

[NoahB]

LA's Expo line's frequency is based on the traffic light frequency, (seemingly even when they use rail crossing arms).
Without absolute traffic priority, the Crosstown service east of Leslie will never reach subway frequency without severe bunching and delays for both the LRT and the car traffic around it.

At the end of August, Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials cut rush-hour service on the Expo Line, increasing the wait time between trains from six minutes to eight minutes. The change eliminated two trains per hour during peak periods on the line, which carries 60,000 daily riders between downtown and Santa Monica.

Since the cuts, complaints about hot, crowded, smelly commutes have flooded social media. Some trains have been so crammed that passengers with bicycles, wheelchairs and strollers have been stranded on platforms. Commuters squished into one another wear backpacks, earbuds and thousand-yard stares.

....


Although the cuts did save money, they were intended to make the line run more smoothly, said Metro senior executive officer Conan Cheung.

“We budget what we need to run,” Cheung said. If trains run slightly less often, a breakdown or a delayed train is less likely to cause cascading delays on the line, he said.

...

Metro also faces operational challenges along the street-level portion of the Expo Line through Exposition Park, where trains must wait at traffic lights. Because the signals run on 120-second cycles, Metro trains move fastest through the area if they run at even-numbered intervals of six minutes, eight minutes or 10 minutes, Cheung said.

The most frequent service Metro could operate on the Expo Line is a three-car train every five minutes during rush hour, he said, but the signal timing precludes that.

From the LA Times(Pay Gate)

 

[Streety McCarface]

Yay for 10 minute frequencies during rush hour. Yes, frequency of service and the level of priority that service is granted are directly related. Cities set thresholds differently based on local street-grid, etc but you're not going to see 3 minute frequencies with railway style crossing bars in North America.

If you honestly believe they're planning on having 3-minute frequencies on the surface section of the crosstown, you might want to check your sources. It'll probably be closer to a train every 5-7 minutes, similar to Lines 4 and 3 — Also similar to the Expo Line, Calgary & Edmonton's lines, the San Diego Trolley, The C Train (Chicago), areas of the LIRR, MNRR & NJT, Pittsburgh Light Rail, Denver's RTD, etc. This isn't difficult stuff and the fact that Toronto can't get it right is an absolute embarrasment.