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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

Metrolinx could have accepted this when it came out but the PR flack (not AMA) told CP24 that Metrolinx wasn’t accepting the contractor’s estimate. I guess they are now. Their court documents vs Bombardier over LRV delivery must make grimly amusing reading for the latter now,
 
It took four years to build the CPR. It went across canada and through the rockies. Other than surveyors maps, little would have been known about much of the terrain in 1881. 140 years later its taking twelve years to build a 25 kms LRT line from Mount Dennis to Kennedy road. Through a terrain accessible to millions.

I am not a civil engineer, but its hard image where we would be today if that same level of efficiency (over the same time period) applied to other field such as telecommunication, medicine, manufacturing, project management etc etc.
 
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Burnt creek said:
It took four years to build the CPR. It went across canada and through the rockies. 140 years later its taking twelve years to build a 25 kms LRT line from Mount Dennis to Kennedy road.

I am not a civil engineer, but its hard image where we would be if that same level of efficiency (over the same time period) applied to other field such as telecommunication, medicine, manufacturing, project management etc etc.
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It is estimated that between 600 to 1000 men died building the Canadian Pacific Railway. Such a furious pace comes with great expense, I am not sure we would be willing to accept such costs in 2020.

Edit: I just remembered that the Canada Heritage Minute ad that ran put the number at 1 man per 1 mile of track. The Chinese Railroad Workers Memorial puts the number of dead at 4000.
 
Burnt creek said:
It took four years to build the CPR. It went across canada and through the rockies. 140 years later its taking twelve years to build a 25 kms LRT line from Mount Dennis to Kennedy road.

I am not a civil engineer, but its hard image where we would be if that same level of efficiency (over the same time period) applied to other field such as telecommunication, medicine, manufacturing, project management etc etc.
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Sure is a lot easier building a railway if you're willing to gamble with the lives of tens of thousands of foreign workers.
 
No doubt. I was aware of that. Nobody is advocating a return to the labour conditions of that time. But surely there has to be middle ground somewhere.
Is it really a labour issue as to why there is descrepancies between 1885 and today? I dont think so, todays workers would be far more productive through available tools and machinery. Or is it because of the number of signoffs and or stakeholders approvals you need nowadays to move from one phase to the next in todays projects. Or managing subcontractors, or management by objectives, Or the waiting for for lawyers approvals etc etc.
 
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Burnt creek said:
No doubt. I was aware of that. Nobody is advocating a return to the labour conditions of that time. But surely there has to be middle ground somewhere.
Is it really a labour issue as to why there is descrepancies between 1885 and today? I dont think so, todays workers would be far more productive through available tools and machinery. Or is it because of the number of signoffs and or stakeholders approvals you need nowadays to move from one phase to the next in todays projects. Or managing subcontractors, or management by objectives, Or the waiting for for lawyers approvals etc etc.
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I see where you’re going here. And I somewhat agree. However there are very likely a lot more stakeholders who are impacted by the 25km LRT through the nation’s most populous city than there were for the entire stretch of the CPR. That and the fact the CPR steamrollered right through any aboriginal concerns anyways. So unfortunately while I do agree red tape is a pain in the ass I don’t think it’s the problem. The real issue in my opinion is political meddling. It takes longer than 4 years to plan/design/fund/build major infrastructure projects. The fact all our politicians want to build monorails is what is fucking us.
 
^ I would not draw the comparison through the price paid by labour (as awful as that was).

If you look at the quality of the CP line, the original track and civil works were rudimentary. Every inch of that line was rebuilt again and again. Many trestles were replaced by fills and culverts, new tunnels were dug, whole sections of the line were rerouted. Some parts worked for a short while but quickly subsided into the swamps. The whole thing had to be completed quickly, but the Last Spike was in no way the finished product.

With a transit line, this isn’t possible. We have to get it right the first time, we can’t put in a patch and then shut it down next year to install a more permanent solution. So a comparison with CPR is quite misleading.

I’m more impressed with how we built, say, the CN tower.....one continuous pour. They had no room to stop and do more core samples!

The experts say that the worst thing a project can do is begin construction before the engineering is well advanced and sufficient to give proper direction. This project may be guilty of bad planning or faulty execution. Complaining about red tape will not improve on that.

- Paul
 
W. K. Lis said:
Today is 2020. By the time 2021 comes around, most of the construction above ground would be finished. They are already removing the decking around the Science Centre Station. See link.
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More to the point, the delay is likely in the underground stations at Yonge-Eglinton and Cedarvale along with possibly Kennedy. The above ground portions are complete for the most part (minus the outfitting) but the dig downs at key points are causing unexpected problems.
 
Clearly St Clair ROW was far worse than this construction. What exactly is the status of Eglinton Connects? Is it oh we would like to build but we don't have money status... that's like 90% of Toronto's transit plans.
 
sixrings said:
Clearly St Clair ROW was far worse than this construction. What exactly is the status of Eglinton Connects? Is it oh we would like to build but we don't have money status... that's like 90% of Toronto's transit plans.
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See here. Ironically, staff were asked to accelerate design work to meet the Sept 2021 opening date. Report is due mid year.


- Paul
 
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