Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Steve X]

To make matters worse, I feel like mentioning that the line was originally supposed to open in phases starting in 2016 (Eglinton West to Martin Grove was to be the first), until McGunity delayed and reduced the funding, and took over the project from the TTC, and switched it to a P3 scheme, requiring a great deal of procurement work to be redone, wasting a few years of time.

Originally claimed 2015 assuming it started right away. Which is believable as the TYSSE started main construction in 2011 and finished 2 years later in Dec 2017. It started a couple years late cause of funding issue too as utilities relocation started in 2008. They decided to spread out the cash flow and build the tunnels first which is the main problem. P3 isn't the biggest issue.

Compare

TYSSE (2011-2017) 6 years:
Tunneling: 2011-2013
Station construction: 2011-2016 (death at York U and TTC mismanagement led to delays)
Station finishing: 2015-2017
Track installation: 2014-2016
First train testing: 2017
Opening: 2017

Crosstown (2013-2022?) 9 years:
Tunneling: 2013-2016
Station construction: 2018-2022?
Station finishing: 2019/2020-2022? (Mt Dennis+Keelesdale started last year)
Track installation: 2019-2021?
First train testing: 2019
Opening: 2022?

Now if the Crosstown was phased like TYSSE:
Tunneling: 2013-2015 (Buy 6 TBMs instead of 4, start all tunneling at the same time)
Station construction: 2013-2018 (Start tunneling along with station box construction)
Station finishing: 2017-2019
Track installation: 2016-2018
First train opening: 2019
Opening: 2019!

This takes in account of delays that they face at Eglinton as Downsview Park, York U and Pioneer Village had problems too. So if TTC were to build the line in the traditional way with funding of course, we'll be riding it now. Nevermind, I forgot there's no trains!

A 2025 opening for Eglinton West LRT to Renforth is totally possible. 2027/28 opening would be possible for the Ontario Line if they don't gown down the Crosstown path.

 

[crs1026]

Crosstown won’t open on time? I’m shocked. Shocked!

Delays of this sort happen. The real story is in ML’s secretiveness and lack of transparency. ML seems to believe its own press releases.If they can just keep denying, it will open on time......

The thing to watch is how ML feeds its contractor to the press. The P3 process will be the victim.

No contractor is going to sign up for a P3 in the future without some very tight language and very large contingencies.

- Paul

 

[Jonny5]

The statement also cites a defect discovered in decades-old infrastructure located under the TTC’s Eglinton subway station at Yonge Street, which has complicated construction of a new LRT stop beneath the subway at the site.

On which piece of infrastructure does this "defect" exist? And how severe is it that it is causing delays which are so significant?
"Decades-old" as a descriptor is kind of useless. It sounds like something they want you to think means it's from the 60's, but this is 2020. We are at the point where that could mean something built in 1999.

 

[Richard White]

On which piece of infrastructure does this "defect" exist? And how severe is it that it is causing delays which are so significant?
"Decades-old" as a descriptor is kind of useless. It sounds like something they want you to think means it's from the 60's, but this is 2020. We are at the point where that could mean something built in 1999.

It was pipes from the 50s that apparently were in the wrong spot. This then caused problems for the construction

 

[W. K. Lis]

There will be crossover tracks at Cedarvale Station (Eglinton West Station) with Line 1. Open the section between Mt. Dennis and Cedarvale until the problem with Eglinton Station is rectified. Basically, a modified Eglinton West Subway (see link).

From link.

 

[Allandale25]

Blog post by Metrolinx with pictures:

Metrolinx Press Room

Find the latest Metrolinx news, project updates and more.

blog.metrolinx.com

 

[urbanyimby]

There will be crossover tracks at Cedarvale Station (Eglinton West Station) with Line 1. Open the section between Mt. Dennis and Cedarvale until the problem with Eglinton Station is rectified. Basically, a modified Eglinton West Subway (see link).

From link.

Cedarvale won't be ready by next year, so why bother

 

[cplchanb]

There will be crossover tracks at Cedarvale Station (Eglinton West Station) with Line 1. Open the section between Mt. Dennis and Cedarvale until the problem with Eglinton Station is rectified. Basically, a modified Eglinton West Subway (see link).

From link.

unfortunately thats a bit too optimistic of a plan for toronto unfortunately... ?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Wait till the other shoe drop about the budget. Anyways, there probably isn't a huge point in opening any stretch of the line independently when the central portion isn't ready.

AoD

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Originally claimed 2015 assuming it started right away. Which is believable as the TYSSE started main construction in 2011 and finished 2 years later in Dec 2017. It started a couple years late cause of funding issue too as utilities relocation started in 2008. They decided to spread out the cash flow and build the tunnels first which is the main problem. P3 isn't the biggest issue.

Compare

TYSSE (2011-2017) 6 years:
Tunneling: 2011-2013
Station construction: 2011-2016 (death at York U and TTC mismanagement led to delays)
Station finishing: 2015-2017
Track installation: 2014-2016
First train testing: 2017
Opening: 2017

Crosstown (2013-2022?) 9 years:
Tunneling: 2013-2016
Station construction: 2018-2022?
Station finishing: 2019/2020-2022? (Mt Dennis+Keelesdale started last year)
Track installation: 2019-2021?
First train testing: 2019
Opening: 2022?

Now if the Crosstown was phased like TYSSE:
Tunneling: 2013-2015 (Buy 6 TBMs instead of 4, start all tunneling at the same time)
Station construction: 2013-2018 (Start tunneling along with station box construction)
Station finishing: 2017-2019
Track installation: 2016-2018
First train opening: 2019
Opening: 2019!

This takes in account of delays that they face at Eglinton as Downsview Park, York U and Pioneer Village had problems too. So if TTC were to build the line in the traditional way with funding of course, we'll be riding it now. Nevermind, I forgot there's no trains!

A 2025 opening for Eglinton West LRT to Renforth is totally possible. 2027/28 opening would be possible for the Ontario Line if they don't gown down the Crosstown path.

I think 10 years of construction for 10 km of subway is just absurd. Especially thru a predominantly suburban environment

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Crosstown won’t open on time? I’m shocked. Shocked!

Delays of this sort happen. The real story is in ML’s secretiveness and lack of transparency. ML seems to believe its own press releases.If they can just keep denying, it will open on time......

The thing to watch is how ML feeds its contractor to the press. The P3 process will be the victim.

No contractor is going to sign up for a P3 in the future without some very tight language and very large contingencies.

- Paul

We’ve already seen that be a major factor in the Hamilton LRT and GO Electrification procurement. This might all indicate that IO’s preferred P3 model might not be viable anymore.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

As Ben Spurr points out:

Ben Spurr
So it looks like the province will use the Crosstown delay as justification for the legislation to streamline environmental assessments and other approvals.

Ben Spurr (@BenSpurr) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from Ben Spurr (@BenSpurr). Transportation reporter at the Toronto Star. If you've got a story, email me at bspurr@thestar.ca, or call 416 869-4547. Toronto, ON

twitter.com

Wag the dog.

AoD

 

[christiesplits]

Wag the dog.

AoD

Wag the doug.

 

[crs1026]

^Let’s see if they can actually connect the dots. Was the alleged 15 month late start due to lack of approvals? Sounds like that delay happened after the contract was let, ie not as a result of an “excessive” EA process. Similarly, did the contractor only achieve 84% of schedule because approvals were holding things up? Or was that attributable to other things - labour supply, materiels, engineering, logistics, discovery work?
I sure hope they aren’t saying they will speed up the design/engineering piece. Nobody wants a substandard design. So far, the politicians are the ones using napkins and crayons, the engineers are using proper tools.

- Paul

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

^Let’s see if they can actually connect the dots. Was the alleged 15 month late start due to lack of approvals? Sounds like that delay happened after the contract was let, ie not as a result of an excessive EA process. Similarly, did the contractor only achieve 84% of schedule because approvals were holding things up? Or was that attributable to other things - labour supply, materiels, engineering, logistics, discovery work?
I sure hope they aren’t saying they will speed up the design/engineering piece. Nobody wants a substandard design. So far, the politicians are the ones using napkins and crayons, the engineers are using proper tools.

- Paul

Don't let it be forgotten that they had years to burn for this project - by far the greatest delays are political and not construction in nature. They chose to proceed with tunnelling and not station construction concurrently; they chose to switch mid-stream to a P3, etc. The P3 getting delayed is of course just icing on the cake.

AoD