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Crosstown LRT | Metrolinx

W. K. Lis

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The thing is there really should be fences, not your typical ones but specially designed ones that look aesthetically pleasing.

Last thing we need is for the TTC to start restricting speed to 25 km/hr throughout the entire length of the ROW because they are scared the LRVs will hit people.
Except that the anti-public transit powers-that-be will do their best worst to sabotage this and every rapid transit line
 

Steve X

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The thing is there really should be fences, not your typical ones but specially designed ones that look aesthetically pleasing.

Last thing we need is for the TTC to start restricting speed to 25 km/hr throughout the entire length of the ROW because they are scared the LRVs will hit people.
Yes they need more barriers. Not just for LRT/streetcar corridors but all over the city in trouble spots.

I don't anticipate jaywalking to be a major problem in the near future as Eglinton is a fast traffic street making it difficult to cross. The only people jaywalking are mostly from bus stops as they are left on the other side. The Crosstown would eliminate this problem. By not placing Presto machines at the no exit end and introduce a mandatory tap off would get people to cross at the right places.

Once the Golden Miles develop into an urban neighbourhood, jaywalking would increase. They'll need a lot more barriers to stop people then.
 

turini2

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From my experience - another reason why grass(ed) tracks work well is that it provides a visual barrier for pedestrians, encouraging them to use crossings. The grass tracks are clearly not the road, nor is it the sidewalk. However you could still dash across if you really wanted to.

Putting up pedestrian barriers in the name of safety has been shown do to have the opposite effect - drivers feel "segregated" from other road users and then speed more, increasing crashes! Consequently, many cities across the world have been removing them...
 

W. K. Lis

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Meanwhile, the geese will mow the grass, and deposit people repentant on the grassy right-o-way.
greylag-geese-green-meadow-city-tram-rails-summer-birds-territory-near-residential-areas-eco-friendly-environment-212996552.jpg
From link.

And the occasional coyote, raccoon, and bad dog may deposit their own version of people repellent.

😄 😄 😄 :eek:
 
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nfitz

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Once the Golden Miles develop into an urban neighbourhood, jaywalking would increase. They'll need a lot more barriers to stop people then.
How? Jaywalking is crossing the road, at an intersection, against the lights. If there's an intersection, then there can't be a barrier, for the cars.

Safer to let people cross mid-block if there's no traffic. Doesn't work well in rush-hour - but I've had no problems crossing even 6-lane roads like Don Mills at 2 in the morning mid-block.
 

ARG1

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How? Jaywalking is crossing the road, at an intersection, against the lights. If there's an intersection, then there can't be a barrier, for the cars.

Safer to let people cross mid-block if there's no traffic. Doesn't work well in rush-hour - but I've had no problems crossing even 6-lane roads like Don Mills at 2 in the morning mid-block.
Maybe less to stop people from crossing, but more to guarantee stronger priority so that it could remain as "rapid transit", and not the 510 2.0. Getting people to stop crossing would require fencing between the tracks or between the tracks and the road.
 

W. K. Lis

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How? Jaywalking is crossing the road, at an intersection, against the lights. If there's an intersection, then there can't be a barrier, for the cars.

Safer to let people cross mid-block if there's no traffic. Doesn't work well in rush-hour - but I've had no problems crossing even 6-lane roads like Don Mills at 2 in the morning mid-block.
 

nfitz

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Maybe less to stop people from crossing, but more to guarantee stronger priority so that it could remain as "rapid transit", and not the 510 2.0. Getting people to stop crossing would require fencing between the tracks or between the tracks and the road.
Why though?

They'd save more lives by putting walls along the streets, so cars don't kill any more people on sidewalks and inside buildings.

Offhand, can't even recall hearing about any pedestrian deaths along Spadina, where people cross frequently (and legally), in the quarter-century of operation of streetcars.
 

ARG1

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Why though?

They'd save more lives by putting walls along the streets, so cars don't kill any more people on sidewalks and inside buildings.

Offhand, can't even recall hearing about any pedestrian deaths along Spadina, where people cross frequently (and legally), in the quarter-century of operation of streetcars.
The issue isn't pedestrian deaths, the issue is that as a way to mitigate incidents, rail lines where the train runs on the street often have to operate significantly slower in the off chance that some guy jwalks. The reason I bring up the 510 is even ignoring the tight stop spacing, streetcars often travel far slower between blocks even if it can visibly speed up simply because of the concern that someone runs for it. The TTC in general has really strong history of slowing down vehicles as a safety measure to address some safety concern. This has happened on the 512, and especially on the 509.
 

nfitz

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The issue isn't pedestrian deaths, the issue is that as a way to mitigate incidents, rail lines where the train runs on the street often have to operate significantly slower in the off chance that some guy jwalks. The reason I bring up the 510 is even ignoring the tight stop spacing, streetcars often travel far slower between blocks even if it can visibly speed up simply because of the concern that someone runs for it. The TTC in general has really strong history of slowing down vehicles as a safety measure to address some safety concern. This has happened on the 512, and especially on the 509.
I haven't really noticed the cars running slowly - except when cars are ahead of schedule, or to keep a distance when they can see the car in front.

TTC has got a lot better at that, and increased scheduled times to make service more regular.

But I've seen no sign of behind-scheduled streetcars going slower on regular streets - which I thought would have been even more dangerous - and certainly have had deaths, when Spadina hasn't.
 

Steve X

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This is the kinda events that causes TTC to tell their operators to slow down.

Oh yeah, lets spend billions on freak accident prevention.

Human life is precious, but seriously, we can't go around trying to deathproof everything.
The point isn't deathpoofing but improve reliability. Same goes for PSDs on subway platforms. It's not all for suicide measures but to prevent litter cause track fire and allow trains to enter stations at a faster speed when they're are jammed packed.

As for Spadina streetcar deaths, there's a list:
https://globalnews.ca/news/7831110/spadina-avenue-nassau-street-collision/ (almost killed at the scene, not sure if she died afterwards)
 
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EnviroTO

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Oh yeah, lets spend billions on freak accident prevention.

Human life is precious, but seriously, we can't go around trying to deathproof everything.

That was my point.

First, a fence or signage is not a billion dollars. Second, although it is nice to say we can't prevent all people from doing crazy things, that people need to be accountable for their own actions, or any other of things to say "hey it's obvious... isn't that enough" the problem is that we all pay when something goes wrong. This isn't like people who ask to put up handrails in the middle of the wilderness where "its nature" and if someone falls down a cliff the repercussions are felt only by those close to the individual and first responders, this is city infrastructure driven by a city employee and the citizens are going to see poor service every time there is an incident. I bristle at the thought of people that try to make the wilderness safe.... but this is the city. All we need is a few people to get hit and say they thought they were on a safe manicured grass lawn after crossing the lanes of traffic, and then grass disappears as an option. If studies have shown this works... I'm all for leaving it as it is because it looks much nicer than it would even with an aesthetically pleasing fence, but it will need to be something monitored closely and responded to quickly if people are crossing midblock all the time.
 

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