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Crosstown LRT | Metrolinx

Deadpool X

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I am a transit rider and I see nothing wrong with a center lane lrt system. What was before were busses, I don't see how anyone is going to complain about not taking a bus and now having to take an LRT instead. The LRT is the better choice compared to the buses. Sure grade separated would've been better, but clearly that wasn't the most economical choice. Now I do agree that there are too many stops between birchmount and say pharmacy, but the anger definitely wont be as high as you are making it.

For the most part, everyone just wants this to be over with and will be happy when it is.
It is an improvement over the buses but people will be upset getting this after spending billions of dollars. At that price, every rider may as well get a personal bus 😂
 

TheTigerMaster

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What I did notice from that short video is the speed of the LRT. Even in testing that looked like it was moving faster than what I was envisioning. Add some priority signaling and we may get speeds much faster than I thought
This is faster than what you were expecting? I was expecting it to be even faster than this. Acceleration appeared sluggish for what I can only assume are testing-released reasons.
 

Redflorist

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It is an improvement over the buses but people will be upset getting this after spending billions of dollars. At that price, every rider may as well get a personal bus 😂
At this price they better guarantee there'll be signal priority, or else I imagine after it fully opens there'll be lots of videos like the one linked recently of the LRT waiting at the lights going viral.
 

drum118

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6246 was the last car to be off loaded today before heading westbound. Was late leaving by 90 minutes and miss the bus at Kennedy Station, other wise would got more than 4 photos of it as well a video. Wasn't sure if my bus would get ahead of the car due to slow drivers in front of the bus, but did so a few stops away to allow me to catch the car. Will get more shots and videos once testing start shortly.

I see why Rosemount was used for off loading the cars as it saw very little traffic in the first place. Since the intersection is very narrow, more planking was place on the west bound track to allow the flat deck to pull onto before backing up to the ramp like KW did for their cars to be place on the track.

They were placing the ramp onto a flat deck when I walked back to the area.

The tracks west of the Birchmount Station have the same moulid material that is used for the roads, This means that one of 2 things will happen later once fair amount of testing has taken place to make sure if there are any issues with the tracks and fix them first. We are going to see either concrete pour for the corridor or we will finally see real grass place in the corridor as plan. If grass, don't expect it will be place until the fall or early next year.

Concrete is missing for the ramps to the platforms as well the crosswalk over the tracks. There is to be a ramp from the crosswalk to the road about 6" high. You need to walk on the road to cross Eglinton until the sidewalk is in place.

The few stations I saw are about 90% complete.

Kennedy LRT Station is full bury with concrete slab on top of it. A small section under the SRT and GO corridor have a small section of wall to be form and concrete before the slab roof on X can be pour. Once this is done, the 2nd GO bridge can be pour with the east retaining wall in place.

I am haft way through by May 30 photos before I can get to these photos that are first in line.
 
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ssiguy2

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It is an improvement over the buses but people will be upset getting this after spending billions of dollars. At that price, every rider may as well get a personal bus 😂

That's the crux of the issue. People wouldn't be near as upset with the line's many faults if it didn't take $5 billion to build and take over a decade. It's about value for the money spent and in this regard this line grossly under performs. The whole point of LRT {besides Miller not wanting aanything automated to appease his union support} was that it was suppose to be cheaper and faster to build than standard Metro. Neither has been true and now Toronto is getting the slowest, most expensive, least efficient, lowest frequency, least reliable, most disruptive, and lowest capacity system they could have thought of.

As I stated a few pages ago, there is a way to greatly speed up the trains, increase frequency, and make it far more reliable by getting rid of many left-hand turns and using the "U-Turn" system employed in other cities. It is nothing short of scandalous that after 10 years of construction and billions spent, they still don't know about signal priority.
 

TheTigerMaster

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The whole point of LRT {besides Miller not wanting aanything automated to appease his union support} was that it was suppose to be cheaper and faster to build than standard Metro. Neither has been true and now Toronto is getting the slowest, most expensive, least efficient, lowest frequency, least reliable, most disruptive, and lowest capacity system they could have thought of.
To be fair, the delays have everything to do with the underground "subway" section, and nothing to do with the surface. Just look at the FWLRT, which recently started construction, is progressing rapidly and could very well open ahead of the Crosstown LRT (which has been under construction for a decade). If anything, the poor performance of the Crosstown and TYSSE should make us think twice about future subway projects (not saying I agree with this point of view, but I'm playing devil's advocate here)
 

ARG1

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To be fair, the delays have everything to do with the underground "subway" section, and nothing to do with the surface. Just look at the FWLRT, which recently started construction, is progressing rapidly and could very well open ahead of the Crosstown LRT (which has been under construction for a decade). If anything, the poor performance of the Crosstown and TYSSE should make us think twice about future subway projects (not saying I agree with this point of view, but I'm playing devil's advocate here)
True, however that also begs the question of what you're getting out of the subway project. With the crosstown, not only did we spend a decade on a tunneled section, but that tunneled section is going to struggle with inconsistent headways and a cap to maximum frequency solely due to the existence of the surface sections. Despite having ATC, you can't run 90 second frequencies since there is no way to integrate a surface section to such high frequencies, and its a line that desperately wants tight headways since its a low floor line meaning that individual train capacity is extremely compromised. In other words by making it an LRT, we have built a subway that has all of the costs and upfront problems of a subway, without many of the benefits of grade separated transit. Had we spent a bit more money on building something fully grade separating the line, we could've built something that justifies that cost far more while not being that much more expensive.

TYSSE by contrast has ATC, can run up to 90 second frequencies, has these large high capacity train, so even if it did take a long time to build and while there were complications during constructions, at least you can see what that money went into and what you get for that money.
 

TheTigerMaster

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True, however that also begs the question of what you're getting out of the subway project. With the crosstown, not only did we spend a decade on a tunneled section, but that tunneled section is going to struggle with inconsistent headways and a cap to maximum frequency solely due to the existence of the surface sections. Despite having ATC, you can't run 90 second frequencies since there is no way to integrate a surface section to such high frequencies, and its a line that desperately wants tight headways since its a low floor line meaning that individual train capacity is extremely compromised. In other words by making it an LRT, we have built a subway that has all of the costs and upfront problems of a subway, without many of the benefits of grade separated transit. Had we spent a bit more money on building something fully grade separating the line, we could've built something that justifies that cost far more while not being that much more expensive.

TYSSE by contrast has ATC, can run up to 90 second frequencies, has these large high capacity train, so even if it did take a long time to build and while there were complications during constructions, at least you can see what that money went into and what you get for that money.
No contesting what you've said here. However this could change the equation with other projects. For example, EELRT could be a big win for any politician looking to deliver a major project within four years. That would be impossible with an underground alignment.

Further, the relatively minimal disruptions and speedy pace of the FWLRT vs the Crosstown could also make the public more accepting of surface transit as well. Minimizing disruptions has been one of the arguments of subways over LRT, but the Crosstown and FWLRT have kind of blown that argument up at this point.
 
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Redflorist

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That's the crux of the issue. People wouldn't be near as upset with the line's many faults if it didn't take $5 billion to build and take over a decade. It's about value for the money spent and in this regard this line grossly under performs. The whole point of LRT {besides Miller not wanting aanything automated to appease his union support} was that it was suppose to be cheaper and faster to build than standard Metro. Neither has been true and now Toronto is getting the slowest, most expensive, least efficient, lowest frequency, least reliable, most disruptive, and lowest capacity system they could have thought of.

As I stated a few pages ago, there is a way to greatly speed up the trains, increase frequency, and make it far more reliable by getting rid of many left-hand turns and using the "U-Turn" system employed in other cities. It is nothing short of scandalous that after 10 years of construction and billions spent, they still don't know about signal priority.
If it was just a streetcar people wouldn't be mad since they know the pros and cons of them, with a very big pro being price that outweighs all the cons. However, this system will be a tough sell. Don't get me wrong I'm happy for any new transit line, but let's just hope the Ontario Line is a bit more traditional.
 

JSF-1

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If it was just a streetcar people wouldn't be mad since they know the pros and cons of them, with a very big pro being price that outweighs all the cons. However, this system will be a tough sell. Don't get me wrong I'm happy for any new transit line, but let's just hope the Ontario Line is a bit more traditional.
I would disagree, if it was just a streetcar it would never get built, because the car-centric suburban councillors would have lost their minds. Most of the people who are against the EC already don't make the distinction between LRT and Streetcars, so calling it such would only solidify there belief and would be counter-predictive. Unfortunately for a lot of people in this city the word Streetcar is a dirty word, even though imo we should be actively expanding our streetcar network. That however is a discussion for a different thread.
 

TorontoBun

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If it was just a streetcar people wouldn't be mad since they know the pros and cons of them, with a very big pro being price that outweighs all the cons. However, this system will be a tough sell. Don't get me wrong I'm happy for any new transit line, but let's just hope the Ontario Line is a bit more traditional.
If the Eglinton Line was conceived as a streetcar line, it would have had a much higher chance of being cancelled in the early stages because of Rob Ford’s war on cars and the public’s main idea of streetcars being slow and in the way of drivers (and conveniently ignore the 510 and 512 lines).

Even if it somehow went through, with average streetcar stop spacing being in the same ballpark as local buses, i would imagine the eastern section would have close to double the stops from constituents complaining about having to walk further for what would just be a larger bus on rails.
 

Johnny Au

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Here's Part 1 of Cedarvale station on May 31, 2021:

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ssiguy2

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They could take lemons and make Lemon Aid and make this system as fast as a Metro but only if they give the trains 100% signal priority. There is absolutely NO reason why these trains should be stopping anywhere along the route to wait for any lights. Rail crossing guards and car U-turns would solve these problems and put the "rapid" back into this supposed rapid transit line and ditto for Finch.

This is where we will really find out if the City TRULY wants Toronto to become a transit city or one with transit as long as it doesn't effect the cars. Hopeful for the prior but it will almost certainly be the latter. Due to this, I think the ML is going to have to admit that they blew this line big time and automate the Pearson to DVP section and then run the at-grade portion as 2 different lines requiring a linear transfer.
 

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