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Crosstown LRT | Metrolinx

drum118

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turini2

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pulls not surprised face

Anyone who's been paying attention to the Crossrail project could have told you this project was going to be late!
They haven't even started on the hard bit - all the testing, commissioning and final paperwork (making sure the fire alarms all work, all the various systems communicate with each other, the signalling system is fully tested etc etc).

Maybe it would have been better to have built a yard on the western side so the "easier" surface section can open earlier!
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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pulls not surprised face

Anyone who's been paying attention to the Crossrail project could have told you this project was going to be late!
They haven't even started on the hard bit - all the testing, commissioning and final paperwork (making sure the fire alarms all work, all the various systems communicate with each other, the signalling system is fully tested etc etc).

Maybe it would have been better to have built a yard on the western side so the "easier" surface section can open earlier!

You mean building a yard in the east? Even if they did, the utility of opening a section not connected to much (much less Yonge) wouldn't be that high. Anyways, I wonder if they would have made the latest deadline even without COVID - and it's just being trotted out as a convenient excuse now.

AoD
 

ssiguy2

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Late and over budget, who would have thought?

Wasn't one of the reasons for LRT was that it was more affordable and easier to build? I guess that theory has been blown out of the water. Elevation is far easier and faster to build and far less disruptive on local roadways because, unlike median running LRT, elevated rail usually goes along the side of a roadway.

After all this time and money Toronto will be getting a rather slow, unreliable, and lower capacity system than if they had built the damn thing grade separated in the first place.
 

TRONto

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Late and over budget, who would have thought?

Wasn't one of the reasons for LRT was that it was more affordable and easier to build? I guess that theory has been blown out of the water. Elevation is far easier and faster to build and far less disruptive on local roadways because, unlike median running LRT, elevated rail usually goes along the side of a roadway.

After all this time and money Toronto will be getting a rather slow, unreliable, and lower capacity system than if they had built the damn thing grade separated in the first place.
The crosstown would not be elevated through the central part. The grade level portion is straight forward and started way later as it's much faster to build (see Finch LRT).

An elevated Crosstown would still be below grade through the centre of the route and hit the same problems.
 

KhalilHeron

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The 102D from Major Mac to Warden Station is pretty close to the 54A length too. Way over an hour.
according to the TTC's 2020 service report the 54 just a bit over a kilometre longer! They're really damn close! The Steeles, Eglinton east, and Bloor-Danforth night busses still beat both of them though with the 354 just being little behind 😮
 

crs1026

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The real orthodoxy buster here is the notion that P3 is by default better and cheaper, and transfers risks from the government to the private sector. Pretty much none of that had happened in this case.

AoD

Don’t forget Ml’s equally embarrassing outcome when it took Bombardier to court alleging failure to deliver on its LRV contract.

More recently, Ml’s approach to P3 for GO RER expansion went back to the drawing board when bidders balked at ML’s proposed way of doing things.

This is an organization that just doesn’t want to be accountable for anything, and especially not for project management.

- Paul
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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Don’t forget Ml’s equally embarrassing outcome when it took Bombardier to court alleging failure to deliver on its LRV contract.

More recently, Ml’s approach to P3 for GO RER expansion went back to the drawing board when bidders balked at ML’s proposed way of doing things.

This is an organization that just doesn’t want to be accountable for anything, and especially not for project management.

- Paul

Oh I am acutely aware of the move towards "alliance" model - with risk sharing back to the government - that pretty much puts an end to the whole "transfer risk to the private sector" P3 argument in the transit context in the GTA.

AoD
 

crs1026

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When will a new completion date actually be set? Or is it just "idk, whenever" at this point?

I imagine there will be a negotiation.

Considering that the date won't be prior to June 2, 2022.... it may not matter as much to QP.

- Paul
 

ARG1

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Oh I am acutely aware of the move towards "alliance" model - with risk sharing back to the government - that pretty much puts an end to the whole "transfer risk to the private sector" P3 argument in the transit context in the GTA.

AoD
I think at this point it might be wise to abandon P3s altogether, or to rethink strategies. Right now Metrolinx can easily hit a wall where P3s become to unviable to pursue since they troubled contractors so much that costs will be even more expensive (since the private sector knows how much risk they're putting on themselves, and how strict ML is with suing companies that underdeliver), and it might be cheaper to just go back to the old way of government run construction.
 

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