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Crosstown LRT | Metrolinx

TheTigerMaster

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So a rapid bus gets its own logo but the subway does not? For christ sake...

Also, they should use the TTC font. It's distinctly Toronto and would make these roundals stand out more.
They should hire London consultants to tell them what fonts to use. Maybe they can use London Underground roundrels or something 🤣
 

chinesehorse

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They should hire London consultants to tell them what fonts to use. Maybe they can use London Underground roundrels or something 🤣
The same consultants behind TfL's Legible London initiative as well as TransLink's wayfinding/branding are the ones behind the latest Metrolinx wayfinding/branding initiative.

Definitely know where the "T" came from!

1611551085451.png
 

slapped_chicken

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The same consultants behind TfL's Legible London initiative as well as TransLink's wayfinding/branding are the ones behind the latest Metrolinx wayfinding/branding initiative.

Definitely know where the "T" came from!

View attachment 295984
There's a global agenda for transit symbols, a conspiracy that the elites want to force every city to use the 'T' 😈 and if you don't use it, then no shiny light rail for you ✌️

On a serious note that would be cool, as a universal symbol for transit for all cities, pretty useful if you travel to other places and use transit there. Also, maybe it's because I'm too young to really appreciate it's history (so I'm sorry), but the TTC symbol just seems dated and overcomplicated. I know exactly what it means when I see a red TTC sign, but someone from a different world will look at the sign and be like, "ah, a random deformed red-coloured sign", and might even have difficulty reading "TTC" because it's jumbled up in the logo. Montreal and Vancouver's symbols are a lot more clearer and neater than ours - and you can usually easily tell it has something to do with transit when you see a downward pointing arrow in a circle with the words METRO typed in large font.
 

11th

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I don't think they would.

Sheppard has already been operational for nearly 20 years and it's still woefully underused. The three non-terminus stations on the line are among the Top 10 least used stations in the entire system.

The new development around Bessarion won't really scratch the surface.

Again, as far as the economics of transit are concerned, building expensive infrastructure doesn't make any sense if the ridership doesn't justify it. This has already been demonstrated.
Can we agree Sheppard is a suburban line, and suburban line relies on good connector surface routes for ridership?
The current line has poor/no connecting routes for the non-terminus stations. That does not help with ridership.
Take for example Lawrence station on Yonge, how much walk-up traffic is there? The neighborhood is mostly SFH and affluent, perhaps more so than ones line 4 serves.
Having TOD at station is a bonus but that is a matter of planning policy.
Did some searching and I was surprised to see Dupont and Bayview stations have around the same ridership (in 2018). Not a feat but hey, it has 40+ years. :)

My take on this is it demonstrated how we should not half-ass our plans. You either build it full/proper or don't bother. They didn't stick to the original plan so now we have this never ending debate on the an incomplete line's merit.
 
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salsa

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How the hell is a random person supposed to distinguish a GO bus stop from a TTC bus stop, if all they’re putting is this useless generic “T” on the stop signage. The obvious solution is to put the agency name, but judging from these images, it appears that they’ve opted not to do this??
?

I don't see what's the problem here.

1611591049769.png
 

JSF-1

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?

I don't see what's the problem here.

View attachment 296117
Can't believe they needed to hire a consultation firm to tell them how to do that. You can always tell when decision makers don't actually use the product they are selling because they spend money on consultants to tell them things that are obvious to anyone who actually uses the product. Seriously anyone on this site could have come up with the same idea for free, and hell just go over to the Fantasy Map thread to see it in action and done better. Metrolinx really just exudes "Big Brain" energy. I am adamant if you got a bunch of us on this site together we could come up with a better more cohesive way finding system.
 

cplchanb

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It's hard to seen them in the dark when half the sign is black with a tiny logo.
guys honestly we are wasting our energy trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find every measly fault. If it was a big problem we would know about it by now or there will be some article on the Sun/ Blog TO.. Most of us here will never even ride the ECT constantly enough to warrant accusations. Even for occasional riders do you honestly believe its such an issue that they will be running around in circles confused on what a T means? For regular riders they will get used to it just like the Go transit Ts. That is one of the main problems with us transit "enthusiasts". We think we know everything and can change the world, dismissing anything and anyone that we dont think is a good idea as detrimental to society. Lets focus on the actual completion of ECT instead of these petty little semantics.
 

sche

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Good luck finding a TTC logo in Durham Region or vice versa. That's the idea - that the T is a unifying thing, wherever you are in the GTHA, and whatever mode/agency you're looking for.
But problem is, the T doesn't convey information. If I see a big T on a pole, does that mean a bus stop, a subway station, or a GO station? Not until I walk closer to the sign and see the much smaller bus or train icon do I actually know what it is.

Say I'm at Main Street and Danforth Avenue, halfway between the subway station and the GO station, and there's a T on a pole at the subway station and a T on a pole at the GO station. Say my vision isn't good enough to make out the smaller stuff underneath the T, or I'm not familiar with the operators. So, which way do I go if I want to get to the subway? It's ambiguous. If the sign just had a big train icon and a big subway icon instead of the T, then I would know immediately.

If instead, there was just a big bus icon, that tells me, it's a bus stop. A set of icons, for example maybe a bus icon, an LRT icon, a subway icon, and a regional rail icon would be much better than the "T". This set of icons would be equally unifying - a bus icon in Toronto means a bus stop, a bus icon in Hamilton also means bus stop. It's also much more intuitive than the T - everyone knows that a bus icon means a bus stop, even people who don't speak English.

I really like Sydney's wayfinding. They don't use icons like I described, but they do something very similar with letters and colours representing modes. M in a turquoise circle for Metro, T in an orange circle for Trains, F in a green circle for ferries, B in a blue circle for buses, L in a red circle for LRT. The system is found everywhere in the Sydney area. Although letters are less universal than icons, they are simpler and more legible from a distance so they're still very good. The colours also make sure you can identify them from a distance.

That way when I see this:
1611595322591.png

I know immediately, "metro station"

Then this down the street:
1611595369172.png

I know immediately, bus stop.

And this:
1611595511726.png

Tells me instantly, a bus and LRT stop, buses on the left side of the platform, LRT on the right.

I also really like TfL wayfinding on paper, though they both don't implement as well as Sydney does - London's roundel is iconic and simple and conveys the mode whenever you see it. However, names of modes like "DLR", "TfL Rail", and "Elizabeth Line" aren't exactly intuitive as to what they actually are, and also National Rail is very confusing.
 

Neil

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^^^^
Perhaps that is why Metrolinx went with the generic T option. Because on any given day, you don't know if you're getting a train or a bus. And with the TTC you may get a bus in lieu of a streetcar or a LRT or perhaps in addition to. If tourist information didn't have dibs on '?', they probably would have went with that.
 

W. K. Lis

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^^^^
Perhaps that is why Metrolinx went with the generic T option. Because on any given day, you don't know if you're getting a train or a bus. And with the TTC you may get a bus in lieu of a streetcar or a LRT or perhaps in addition to. If tourist information didn't have dibs on '?', they probably would have went with that.
We need "information desks" at all transit stations...

 

syn

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Can we agree Sheppard is a suburban line, and suburban line relies on good connector surface routes for ridership?
The current line has poor/no connecting routes for the non-terminus stations. That does not help with ridership.
Take for example Lawrence station on Yonge, how much walk-up traffic is there? The neighborhood is mostly SFH and affluent, perhaps more so than ones line 4 serves.
Having TOD at station is a bonus but that is a matter of planning policy.
Did some searching and I was surprised to see Dupont and Bayview stations have around the same ridership (in 2018). Not a feat but hey, it has 40+ years. :)

My take on this is it demonstrated how we should not half-ass our plans. You either build it full/proper or don't bother. They didn't stick to the original plan so now we have this never ending debate on the an incomplete line's merit.

This is exactly why there shouldn't have been a subway on Sheppard on the first place. The surrounding density and usage simply didn't justify it (and still doesn't).

We need to get past the idea that "proper transit" = "subway".
 

duffo

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Can we agree Sheppard is a suburban line, and suburban line relies on good connector surface routes for ridership?
The current line has poor/no connecting routes for the non-terminus stations. That does not help with ridership.
Take for example Lawrence station on Yonge, how much walk-up traffic is there? The neighborhood is mostly SFH and affluent, perhaps more so than ones line 4 serves.
Having TOD at station is a bonus but that is a matter of planning policy.
Did some searching and I was surprised to see Dupont and Bayview stations have around the same ridership (in 2018). Not a feat but hey, it has 40+ years. :)

My take on this is it demonstrated how we should not half-ass our plans. You either build it full/proper or don't bother. They didn't stick to the original plan so now we have this never ending debate on the an incomplete line's merit.
It should be TTC/Metrolinx policy that all future transit lines and extensions must begin and end at higher-order transit with maybe some minor exceptions allowed (post-secondary campuses, airports, etc.) Stubways are frankly a massive mismanagement of public funds
 

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