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Crosstown LRT | Metrolinx

sche

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I made this crude mock-up in Paint 7 years ago, probably for this thread. Everyone ignored it then. Here it is to ignore again. Grade separate the traffic, not the transit. Then add in the station with a simple crosswalk.
View attachment 242203
Thats actually genius! Maybe have a diamond instead of a trumpet interchange like Bayview and Lawrence to save space and lessen environmental impact or something akin to Old Leslie and Sheppard to make it less highway-like, but the area isn’t going to be urban anytime soon anyways so a bit of de-urbanization is probably fine. I do think a pedestrian bridge is necessary though (or just have stairs/elevators coming down from the bridge if we do it the Old Leslie and Sheppard way, kind of like Bayview/Hwy 7 Viva station)
 
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NoahB

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There is already a development proposed near the station.

These areas could urbanize faster than we think and de-urbanizing the intersection might not be the best idea. But then again, leaving the ELRT chocked at this location sounds worse...
 

robmausser

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Just me or do none of these look anywhere close to completion?
You'd be surprised after the structural elements are complete how fast the "window dressing" (anything not structural) goes on. It requires way less planning and observation by engineers. Anything structural is a logistical nightmare these days and works at a snails pace.

Everything else will be relatively quick.

But id still be surprised if this opens at the anticipated date.
 

robmausser

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I made this crude mock-up in Paint 7 years ago, probably for this thread. Everyone ignored it then. Here it is to ignore again. Grade separate the traffic, not the transit. Then add in the station with a simple crosswalk.
View attachment 242203
Its funny how we are trying to solve the human problem of terrible transit priority lights with an engineering solution.

Heres a better idea: why dont we fire all the car-centric dinosaurs in the Toronto Transportation division, and simply put a proper transit priority system in place?

Something like they do in the USA, one of the most car-centric countries in the world?



Why are we proposing to spend millions of dollars on loops to give cars the right of way?
 

rbt

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Something like they do in the USA, one of the most car-centric countries in the world?
Yay for 10 minute frequencies during rush hour. Yes, frequency of service and the level of priority that service is granted are directly related. Cities set thresholds differently based on local street-grid, etc but you're not going to see 3 minute frequencies with railway style crossing bars in North America.
 
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hw621

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Yay for 10 minute frequencies during rush hour. Yes, frequency of service and the level of priority that service is granted are directly related. Cities set thresholds differently based on local street-grid, etc but you're not going to see 3 minute frequencies with railway style crossing bars in North America.
3 minute frequency and stuck at lights won't be a lot better than that...
 

rbt

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3 minute frequency and stuck at lights won't be a lot better than that...
The difference is about 3.3x the passenger capacity on the 3 minute frequency version for roughly the same wait + travel time; that also translates into a better financial situation if ridership exists to fill the seats (lower operating subsidy required, significantly less capital cost per passenger, etc.).
 

NoahB

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LA's Expo line's frequency is based on the traffic light frequency, (seemingly even when they use rail crossing arms).
Without absolute traffic priority, the Crosstown service east of Leslie will never reach subway frequency without severe bunching and delays for both the LRT and the car traffic around it.


At the end of August, Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials cut rush-hour service on the Expo Line, increasing the wait time between trains from six minutes to eight minutes. The change eliminated two trains per hour during peak periods on the line, which carries 60,000 daily riders between downtown and Santa Monica.

Since the cuts, complaints about hot, crowded, smelly commutes have flooded social media. Some trains have been so crammed that passengers with bicycles, wheelchairs and strollers have been stranded on platforms. Commuters squished into one another wear backpacks, earbuds and thousand-yard stares.

....


Although the cuts did save money, they were intended to make the line run more smoothly, said Metro senior executive officer Conan Cheung.

“We budget what we need to run,” Cheung said. If trains run slightly less often, a breakdown or a delayed train is less likely to cause cascading delays on the line, he said.

...

Metro also faces operational challenges along the street-level portion of the Expo Line through Exposition Park, where trains must wait at traffic lights. Because the signals run on 120-second cycles, Metro trains move fastest through the area if they run at even-numbered intervals of six minutes, eight minutes or 10 minutes, Cheung said.

The most frequent service Metro could operate on the Expo Line is a three-car train every five minutes during rush hour, he said, but the signal timing precludes that.
From the LA Times(Pay Gate)
 

Streety McCarface

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Yay for 10 minute frequencies during rush hour. Yes, frequency of service and the level of priority that service is granted are directly related. Cities set thresholds differently based on local street-grid, etc but you're not going to see 3 minute frequencies with railway style crossing bars in North America.
If you honestly believe they're planning on having 3-minute frequencies on the surface section of the crosstown, you might want to check your sources. It'll probably be closer to a train every 5-7 minutes, similar to Lines 4 and 3 — Also similar to the Expo Line, Calgary & Edmonton's lines, the San Diego Trolley, The C Train (Chicago), areas of the LIRR, MNRR & NJT, Pittsburgh Light Rail, Denver's RTD, etc. This isn't difficult stuff and the fact that Toronto can't get it right is an absolute embarrasment.
 

yrt+viva=1system

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It boggles my mind that Toronto can never get anything done properly without half-as#ing it. The fact that Barbra Gray was suppose to be an enlightening moment for Toronto Transportation tells me that institutional-cultural memory is very strong. I’m calling it now that when the Crosstown is up and running will we be seeing headlines about why all this money has hasn’t produced the results that are expected.

What I can never understand is how all these so called experts and planners seem to use wishful-thinking and hoping things pan out. It almost seems like they don’t truly have experience and have too much pride. Can’t own up to the fact that there are other places in the world that have figured out how to build a transportation system properly even if toes needs to be stepped on.

This is my 2 cents and a bit of venting about how it’s all talk and no show.
 

Towered

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It boggles my mind that Toronto can never get anything done properly without half-as#ing it. The fact that Barbra Gray was suppose to be an enlightening moment for Toronto Transportation tells me that institutional-cultural memory is very strong. I’m calling it now that when the Crosstown is up and running will we be seeing headlines about why all this money has hasn’t produced the results that are expected.

What I can never understand is how all these so called experts and planners seem to use wishful-thinking and hoping things pan out. It almost seems like they don’t truly have experience and have too much pride. Can’t own up to the fact that there are other places in the world that have figured out how to build a transportation system properly even if toes needs to be stepped on.

This is my 2 cents and a bit of venting about how it’s all talk and no show.
Its the culture of Toronto. Simple as that, and it won't change for a very long time, if ever. I think @Northern Light said in another thread that it might change once all the boomers running our transportation department as if it were the 80's retire or die. I'm not so sure.
 

Amare

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It's a mediocrity mindset which is what Toronto aspires and settles for. This has been happening since at least the early 90s, where this city lack the vision or foresight for everything.

Remember the days where Montreal used to be the economic capital of Canada? I could see that happening again someday sooner than we all know because they most definitely dont have the pathetic mindset of this city. In Toronto all we do here is talk about how great of a city this is, but we really dont back that talk up with any action. All we've been doing here is riding the economic waves, without any innovation and foresight the properly plan things. The Crosstown project is a perfect example of that.
 

reteequa

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It's a mediocrity mindset which is what Toronto aspires and settles for. This has been happening since at least the early 90s, where this city lack the vision or foresight for everything.

Remember the days where Montreal used to be the economic capital of Canada? I could see that happening again someday sooner than we all know because they most definitely dont have the pathetic mindset of this city. In Toronto all we do here is talk about how great of a city this is, but we really dont back that talk up with any action. All we've been doing here is riding the economic waves, without any innovation and foresight the properly plan things. The Crosstown project is a perfect example of that.
Wow that is so untrue I dont even what to comment any further man. Like come on get a grip. Why does everyone on here complain so much and not do anything about it?
 

SunriseChampion

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Do what about it? If I were to singlehandedly start trying to "bury" the Gardiner in order to improve the city, I'd be shot by the coppers....as just one personally very important example.

No one individual can change the mentality of mediocrity that plagues this city.

I mean, I will run for mayor one day, but these mediocrity-loving chumps won't vote for real change anyway so that'll go nowhere anyway.
 

Amare

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Wow that is so untrue I dont even what to comment any further man. Like come on get a grip. Why does everyone on here complain so much and not do anything about it?
I'll put it this way. Montreal and Quebec as a whole had been plagued with corruption with their construction industry for years to the point it was affecting various infrastructure projects (they still are, but things have improved substantially). If you told anyone 10 years ago that they would be building a massive rapid transit system financed in large part by the private sector before a city like Toronto or Vancouver, 90% of people would laugh and say it would never happen in their lifetimes.

How does this relate to Toronto you might be asking? Well in Toronto it's the complete opposite, we dont have anywhere close to the amount of corruption that Montreal once had and we yet still cant even get our act together with the construction of an LRT project (not let alone a massive subway project). Don't get me wrong, the Crosstown is pretty big in it's own right, but we manage to hack and slash it so much that it cant even operate to its fullest potential. For goodness sake we cant even activate full signal priority, and that's just an outright laughable joke. It's almost the equivalent of having a train stop at an at-grade crossing to wait for traffic to pass, before the train starts and continues again (in other words it makes no sense, but yet that's what we're doing here in Toronto).

The Crosstown project just paints a small picture of the overall portrait of what's wrong with Toronto today. These days, very few things are built to its fullest capability due to the limiting mindsets of various organizations, politicians, and individuals. Unfortunately, it's these groups who are in prominent positions and they have a large influence on what happens in this city.
 

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