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Crosstown LRT | Metrolinx

TheTigerMaster

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I wonder whether the lesson learned from Crosstown (and TYSSE, frankly) is whether deep bore tunnelling is all it was said to be. There may be locations where it was unavoidable - but could we have done parts of the job cut and cover, and how bad would that have been compared to the current hell on Eglinton?

The businesses on Eglinton would probably agree in hindsight that two years of excavation would have done them less harm than five years of blocked sidewalks etc. We may be more willing to bite the bullet on cut and cover on future lines (Ontario Line, take note) where is was a non starter when these last projects were planned.
Yea living near the corridor, I'd much rather have dealt with the strip of Eglinton by my house being unpassable for four to six months, than deal with having every major intersection torn up for six years. It really feels like the congestion is 90% as bad as it would be for cut and cover, so why not go with the shorter lasting disruption?

When we were going into this project, I was thinking that each individual intersection might be torn up for a year or two, before being returned to normal. I never would have dreamed that all the intersections would still be torn up 5 years after heavy construction began.
 

TheTigerMaster

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One of the supposed benefits of tunnelling is the the surface construction impacts are limited to the areas around stations only. However these construction zones around individual stations are so long that they might as well be amalgamated into a single large construction site. Eglinton two blocks away from a station site feels every bit as treacherous as the station itself.
 

sixrings

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Yea living near the corridor, I'd much rather have dealt with the strip of Eglinton by my house being unpassable for four to six months, than deal with having every major intersection torn up for six years. It really feels like the congestion is 90% as bad as it would be for cut and cover, so why not go with the shorter lasting disruption?

When we were going into this project, I was thinking that each individual intersection might be torn up for a year or two, before being returned to normal. I never would have dreamed that all the intersections would still be torn up 5 years after heavy construction began.
Eglinton was much less chaos than St Clair was during its ROW construction though. ;)
 

Rainforest

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Problem here is that a lot of these struggling businesses are working under the assumption that the heavy construction will be wrapped up long before September 2021; they're probably thinking they need to survive just another year and a half of this construction. Metrolinx's apparent lack of communication regarding the delay could really hurt these businesses.
Yeah, that's an important aspect. Let's hope though, that even if the service doesn't start in 2021, then at least all heavy construction gets completed, leaving only some interior work to complete.
 

TheTigerMaster

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Yeah, that's an important aspect. Let's hope though, that even if the service doesn't start in 2021, then at least all heavy construction gets completed, leaving only some interior work to complete.
Yea totally. I can see the heavy construction at all of the non-interchange stations being done within a year (yay), but I don't see Cedarvale and Eglinton-Yonge stations finishing heavy construction anytime soon. Nothing would surprise me if their respective intersections are still torn up three years from now (2022). If Metrolinx said in 2011 that they were going to go from underpinning to substantially completing these two interchange stations in just three years, I would've said that was a ridiculously ambitions plan that probably wouldn't work out. Really feels like the heavy work should've been wrapped up a year ago.

Who knows though. Once excavation and underpinning is complete, they might be able to immediately pour the roof and the restore the road in short order. Construction of the interior could continue once the roof is complete. This is how some of the other cut-and-cover stations are being built. If that's the case, the surface disruption can still realistically be wrapped up by 2021, although I still really cant see these stations being fully complete on time.

I'm curious how Metrolinx originally intended for the construction of Cedarvale and Eglinton-Yonge to proceed. It's hard to believe they ever intended this to progress anywhere near this slowly, especially since these are the two most important stations on the line. If true, these two stations must be years behind schedule. What could possibly cause such a delay?
 
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EastYorkTTCFan

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I was passing through Kennedy RT station earlier and the station there is nowhere near ready to open. There is no concrete up yet and the hole for the station is still being excavated.
Toward the west end of the construction, they have done a fair bit of work on the entrance structure however there isn't any big progress other then them digging out still on the east end of the station.
 

TheTigerMaster

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Toward the west end of the construction, they have done a fair bit of work on the entrance structure however there isn't any big progress other then them digging out still on the east end of the station.
I really genuinely thought we'd see some station entrances mostly complete at this point. I think we've only seen Mt Dennis (surface station; whatever), and Don Mills reach that point.
 

Jaye101

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That's my thoughts on Eglinton west
I mean... We may lose generations of culturally diverse businesses in lieu of RBCs and A&Ws with no soul or cultural value. That would be tons worse than what we have now on Eglinton West.

Hopefully we don't.
 

sixrings

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I mean... We may lose generations of culturally diverse businesses in lieu of RBCs and A&Ws with no soul or cultural value. That would be tons worse than what we have now on Eglinton West.

Hopefully we don't.
I dunno. I love west Indian food and who doesn't need a hair cut. But basically those are the only two businesses between the Allen and dufferin. I'm ok with a RBC and a&w. If anything they would bring diversity.
 

WislaHD

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I dunno...I am getting impatient to begin zipping across Eglinton. I have avoided the street for about five years and it has even affected how much I visit close friends, since it's so painful to get around on Eglinton and in the neighbourhoods close to. When you think about it, construction of this magnitude has demolished a generation of businesses.
The investment in the corridor will bring in a new generation of businesses.

The old ones likely weren't going to be long for this world given the rising rents on the corridor.

One of the supposed benefits of tunnelling is the the surface construction impacts are limited to the areas around stations only. However these construction zones around individual stations are so long that they might as well be amalgamated into a single large construction site. Eglinton two blocks away from a station site feels every bit as treacherous as the station itself.
Yup. Definitely has been my experience too.

Even the areas between stations are under construction throughout most of the past 5 years due to relocation of utilities, construction of emergency exits, and whatnot.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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Staring at the construction photos, I'm on the fence on whether it's not behind.


Here's photos of the confed line around Sept 2017, which is exactly two years before it's actual open date
Confed line doesn't have anything nearly as complicated as the YE and SE interchanges, so my bet is that it will be delayed. And given it's a P3 and apply the project management triangle (fast, cheap and good - pick two)...

AoD
 

Streety McCarface

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Confed line doesn't have anything nearly as complicated as the YE and SE interchanges, so my bet is that it will be delayed. And given it's a P3 and apply the project management triangle (fast, cheap and good - pick two)...

AoD
When it comes to public transit infrastructure It's never really a triangle, it's really: pick the first 2 or the third. You can't have it be good and cheap or good and fast.
 

crs1026

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While taking the GO yesterday, I observed a Flexity running around the yard trackage at the new MSF. The blue lights on the emergency power-off stations were on throughout the yard, suggesting that the overhead is live at least in part of the yard. There were plenty of line trucks further south at the wye to the main line, which gave me some confidence that the overhead will be strung as far east as Keelesdale and perhaps beyond soon. So the ability to do run-ins and testing on the vehicles, and perhaps a section of the signalling, is certainly within sight.

We know that some number of Flexities have been delivered, and with so much time left there is reason to believe that more will be delivered by any potential commissioning date. With TTC, Kitchener, Edmonton and Crosslinx all receiving substantially similar vehicles, I'm increasingly optimistic that any common deficiencies or bugs are known. There is enough time remaining that the pace of deliveries and any rework resulting from test results is not really a concern.

That gives me confidence that the availability or operability of the vehicles will not be the limiting factor for when this line opens. Rather it will be some "missing link" of trackage or tunnel/station completion, or both, that sets the limit for when commissioning can begin.

It's not beyond possibility that the western section could be made sufficiently complete to commission the base elements of power supply, signalling, and operation. Perhaps even a "stress test" running full simulated service, at least between Mount Dennis and the next-eastern set of crossovers. That might make the installation and commissioning of the sections further east that much easier, even if it does not permit actual operation.

It's also not beyond possibility for Crosslinx to truck a couple of Flexities across the city if the easternmost segments reach the point where an operational test is possible. Stress testing might have to wait until the line was complete across the city, but some basic elements of testing the signals, data circuits, power supply etc might be possible. Again, that would not enable actual operation, but it might allow many prerequisites to be completed and bugs corrected, even while some other part of the line is still considerably behind schedule.

So, for me it all boils down to watching those big holes in the ground, especially Yonge and Cedarvale.

- Paul
 

TrickyRicky

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I know I’m late to the whole concrete cure conversation but to clarify it doesn’t take concrete 28 days to cure. 28 day strength is a design specification convention. Like say 40 MPa (mega pascals) Stress at 28 days based on a standard cylinder compression test. The time it takes a concrete mix design to cure and it’s peak strength are indeterminate.

You can design concrete or other cementitious materials to reach all kinds of performance measures in whatever timeframe you want. The 28 day convention evolved from standard inexpensive concrete used for construction applications and how long such mixes took to reach appreciable levels of their peak strength. Strength in these cases rise rapidly for the first month, then sort of trail off into irrelevance as the reaction runs out of juice.
 

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