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Crosstown LRT | Metrolinx

TransitBart

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Doug Ford has made history by going on a glorified streetcar!

You know...his brother is dead. The comments he and his brother made go back four years and more. Now he's the premier and there is no question he's an under-educated, incurious oaf. But we all evolve in life. He probably doesn't even remember what he said five and six years back. I'd be stunned if he remembered what he said last week.

There is no perfect place to write about this. Sorry mods. Hope this is link not paywalled.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2019/10/09/the-neutering-of-doug-ford.html

With headlines like this, Doug Ford has waaaay better things to consider than streetcars. We should all move on. The governance of the province is at stake. And the sentiment in the Twitter comment about building a solid regional transportation system is valid, necessary and good. It's too bad that Mrs. Wynne's team dicked around so much, and that the sequel means a village somewhere is missing an idiot. But the progress continues and we should separate the sentiments about the political situation from the sentiments about what is happening on the ground.In short order, Line 5, Line 6, the Hurontario Line, The B Line and another Toronto subway will be complete and open. It's actually bigger than the person at the top. Which means the system works.
 

TossYourJacket

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The system may work, but what it's producing is still insufficient without the Relief line, which Ford has entirely upended and potentially delayed for years because he wants to live out his dream of being the dictator of Toronto. A line we should have had at least 10 years ago.
 

Johnny Au

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You know...his brother is dead. The comments he and his brother made go back four years and more. Now he's the premier and there is no question he's an under-educated, incurious oaf. But we all evolve in life. He probably doesn't even remember what he said five and six years back. I'd be stunned if he remembered what he said last week.

There is no perfect place to write about this. Sorry mods. Hope this is link not paywalled.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2019/10/09/the-neutering-of-doug-ford.html
One can bypass the Toronto Star's paywall by pasting the link in outline.com. Our Führer's furor cost him dearly for all the right reasons.
 

TorPronto

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The system may work, but what it's producing is still insufficient without the Relief line, which Ford has entirely upended and potentially delayed for years because he wants to live out his dream of being the dictator of Toronto. A line we should have had at least 10 years ago.
TBH, they way it read was that Metrolinx upended the Relief Line, not Ford. It was presented as something that Metrolinx presented to Ford and he ok'd it. OTW, it's likely we would have had the status quo with the relief line. Honestly, I expect a subway to be built for the Ontario line. I believe Metrolinx is doing an RFQ with specific performance requirements. Industry will likely come back and say you need to build a subway.
 

Kyle Campbell

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TBH, they way it read was that Metrolinx upended the Relief Line, not Ford. It was presented as something that Metrolinx presented to Ford and he ok'd it. OTW, it's likely we would have had the status quo with the relief line. Honestly, I expect a subway to be built for the Ontario line. I believe Metrolinx is doing an RFQ with specific performance requirements. Industry will likely come back and say you need to build a subway.
Subway is a vague term, it was always going to be a metro line thing, but the question is how long are the trains and what are the frequency. Both should be high, but it sounds like train length might be low. Other than that, automated or not is less relevant

Given that this is likely to be a p3, then brace for shorter trains and 80m platforms. That's what industry will say, not subway in the traditional sense. Think of all recent p3s in Canada, the Canada line, the Confederation line and the REM. All use smaller trains and make up for it with high frequencies at launch, that's because that's the most cost effective (read cheap) way to build. But when you can't make the frequency the system fails spectacularly as happened last week in Ottawa.

Compare to the subway, which is running high frequencies and long trains , and it's only relying on frequency now 50 years later as it's at its design limit. It didn't launch that way but a new p3 line will look a lot like Vancouver, Ottawa, and Montreal's recent projects rather than the Sheppard subway
 
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asher__jo

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Subway is a vague term, it was always going to be a metro line thing, but the question is how long are the trains and what are the frequency. Both should be high, but it sounds like train length might be low. Other than that, automated or not is less relevant

Given that this is likely to be a p3, then brace for shorter trains and 80m platforms. That's what industry will say, not subway in the traditional sense. Think of all recent p3s in Canada, the Canada line, the Confederation line and the REM. All use smaller trains and make up for it with high frequencies at launch, that's because that's the most cost effective (read cheap) way to build. But when you can't make the frequency the system fails spectacularly as happened last week in Ottawa.

Compare to the subway, which is running high frequencies and long trains , and it's only relying on frequency now 50 years later as it's at its design limit. It didn't launch that way but a new p3 line will look a lot like Vancouver, Ottawa, and Montreal's recent projects rather than the Sheppard subway
Definitely. Easiest way to trim costs is to make shorter platforms.
 

TransitBart

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^Plenty of other politicians responsible for that as well.
Too true and I think many here may not get this point clearly. The only reason the province is involved is because the old (big) city council could not get its act together in ten years to deal with this. The city had ample time to get its ducks in a row. Instead, each little local councillor chose to focus on local issues and soft issues. Name a single city councillor who speaks with the authority and knowledge of a Steve Munro. Name one who has the courage to raise taxes. All would prefer the province did the taxing and the city did the building. Well folks, life doesn’t always work this way. The city got its just reward here.

Forgotten in this is that prosperous and successful cities are cities where people are mobile and the business climate is good. City council loves public health, speed bumps, parks, twinning our city with others, and recycling. I am human and I think all of that is hugely important, but it’s also all meaningless in a city where people can’t get around.

Aside. The four years of Ford’s mayoralty were a complete loss, but that was predictable from the moment the election results were in.
 

JSF-1

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Too true and I think many here may not get this point clearly. The only reason the province is involved is because the old (big) city council could not get its act together in ten years to deal with this. The city had ample time to get its ducks in a row. Instead, each little local councillor chose to focus on local issues and soft issues. Name a single city councillor who speaks with the authority and knowledge of a Steve Munro. Name one who has the courage to raise taxes. All would prefer the province did the taxing and the city did the building. Well folks, life doesn’t always work this way. The city got its just reward here.

Forgotten in this is that prosperous and successful cities are cities where people are mobile and the business climate is good. City council loves public health, speed bumps, parks, twinning our city with others, and recycling. I am human and I think all of that is hugely important, but it’s also all meaningless in a city where people can’t get around.

Aside. The four years of Ford’s mayoralty were a complete loss, but that was predictable from the moment the election results were in.
I think this also further drives the point home that Toronto as a single-tier city with only 1 council just doesn't work. However this amalgmation horse has been thoroughly beaten into the ground I see no end in site. Its no wonder why some of the worlds most successful cities tend to be two-tiered or atleast have some sort of regional authority above to handle the big things. The job of a City Councillor is to focus on the local level issues, the problem is that Toronto City Council is expected to perform the jobs of both a lower and upper tier municipality. This would be fine if the City was a single entity from the start, but it's not. The City isn't single tier by nature, but by law and while we can think we are one unified city, the truth is we are still 6 at our core, each with its own culture, and expecting a single Council to be able to handle this is stupid. The obvious solution would be to go back to the former Metro system and let local Councillors deal with the local stuff, while the Metro Councillors deal with the bigger regional stuff like you see in many major cities around the world; however we know the Liberals after 10+ years wouldn't do it, we know the Conservatives certainty won't because they believe they can do no wrong so nothing will change.
 

Transportfan

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The City isn't single tier by nature, but by law and while we can think we are one unified city, the truth is we are still 6 at our core, each with its own culture...
Actually, people have always thought Metro as being synonymous with Toronto. Even signs on the 401 always signed Metro as if it were one city. While places like Cambridge and Vaughan, which have been amalgamated for decades, are still seen a collection of distinct places (especially the latter). Even Hamilton which has always had a city-and-suburbs relationship, is psychologically disunited.
 

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