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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

cplchanb said:
Dude, every other surface stop will be straddled by the road so I see no need to swivel the entire ROW for 1 small section of the route. It will also detrimentally affect traffic flow for both lrt and cars as they will have to slow down to negotiate the S bends.
If all the surface stops were lined up the same then fine, but its only for leslie.
Click to expand...

No S bend needed, the LRT goes underground in a portal shortly later for Don Mills Road.

So, all you do is have the LRT ROW on the south side of Eglinton from the Laird Portal to the Don Mills Portal back underground, going under the road. The Don Mills station could have been built on a slight angle to negotiate underground back to the middle of the corridor eastward. The LRT has to slow down at the stop anyways.

Boom, no s bend, no interference with the road. A completely grade separated section from Laird to Don Mills.
 
robmausser said:
No S bend needed, the LRT goes underground in a portal shortly later for Don Mills Road.

So, all you do is have the LRT ROW on the south side of Eglinton from the Laird Portal to the Don Mills Portal back underground, going under the road. The Don Mills station could have been built on a slight angle to negotiate underground back to the middle of the corridor eastward. The LRT has to slow down at the stop anyways.

Boom, no s bend, no interference with the road. A completely grade separated section from Laird to Don Mills.
Click to expand...

The alignment will be affected all the way to the Brentcliffe portal if you want to maintain the straight. I'm not sure if its worth realigning the entire stretch of eglinton from laird to don mills just for leslie. Also
structurally it will also be affected to build a tunnel right next to a shored up section of land. Im sure many traffic engineers were consulted on this and this is the best result overall. Besides, they can get signal priority to easily address your concerns of leslie.
 
cplchanb said:
Dude, every other surface stop will be straddled by the road so I see no need to swivel the entire ROW for 1 small section of the route. It will also detrimentally affect traffic flow for both lrt and cars as they will have to slow down to negotiate the S bends.
If all the surface stops were lined up the same then fine, but its only for leslie.
Click to expand...
Just at the Brentcliffe portal, Eglinton has a kink in it. So it would not have had the S curve. It would have just moved that kink from the Brentcliffe area to the Don Mills area.

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robmausser said:
isnt it great how they put the LRT ROW in the middle of the road at Leslie, so trains will now have to stop and let cars turn left onto Leslie, instead of putting it on the south side of the street, where it would be unaffected by the intersection?

... F@&#ing morons man...
Click to expand...
cplchanb said:
Dude, every other surface stop will be straddled by the road so I see no need to swivel the entire ROW for 1 small section of the route. It will also detrimentally affect traffic flow for both lrt and cars as they will have to slow down to negotiate the S bends.
If all the surface stops were lined up the same then fine, but its only for leslie.
Click to expand...
It was put in the centre of the road by planners and designers that had no plans or even remote thoughts of a DRL subway being built.
When this line was proposed to be fully grade-separated in 2011 - it would have worked perfectly with a DRL.
Those that worked to cancel the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown and put this line in the middle of the road, especially through Leslie, are the same ones who never want a DRL built.
 
BurlOak said:
It was put in the centre of the road by planners and designers that had no plans or even remote thoughts of a DRL subway being built.
When this line was proposed to be fully grade-separated in 2011 - it would have worked perfectly with a DRL.
Those that worked to cancel the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown and put this line in the middle of the road, especially through Leslie, are the same ones who never want a DRL built.
Click to expand...
DRL was never thought to have gone up to here to the science centre and besides the currently alignment along leslie will have little bearing on the interchange station.
What about the celestica ramp on the southside? you will have to redevelop the entire intersection there if you put the row on top of it.
 
Steel framing is all up at Science Centre station:
198149
 
cplchanb said:
DRL was never thought to have gone up to here to the science centre and besides the currently alignment along leslie will have little bearing on the interchange station.
What about the celestica ramp on the southside? you will have to redevelop the entire intersection there if you put the row on top of it.
Click to expand...
That's true to some degree. Those who were pushing for Transit City never thought about a DRL.
Those who had even a remote clue of what they were doing knew that the DRL had to farther north than bloor.
From 1969 https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/globe19690918map.jpg
 
BurlOak said:
It was put in the centre of the road by planners and designers that had no plans or even remote thoughts of a DRL subway being built.
When this line was proposed to be fully grade-separated in 2011 - it would have worked perfectly with a DRL.
Those that worked to cancel the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown and put this line in the middle of the road, especially through Leslie, are the same ones who never want a DRL built.
Click to expand...
It was always designed to be put in the middle of the road at that location. Rob Ford got ML to change to an elevated line with ML doing little work on it. The plan was reverted to the original EA so there will be no need to consult with city council for an EA amendment. ML thought one amendment by shifting the line at Black Creek to an elevated structure was enough trouble. No one wanted to redo the EA and reconsult with the community again. They were getting close to tendering and more changes risk more delays.

cplchanb said:
The alignment will be affected all the way to the Brentcliffe portal if you want to maintain the straight. I'm not sure if its worth realigning the entire stretch of eglinton from laird to don mills just for leslie. Also
structurally it will also be affected to build a tunnel right next to a shored up section of land. Im sure many traffic engineers were consulted on this and this is the best result overall. Besides, they can get signal priority to easily address your concerns of leslie.
Click to expand...
Since they were able to shift the tracks north over Black Creek, they could have done the same too for Leslie. ML was keen to have the line connect to the MSF without traffic so they can use ATO. If they haven't done so, I bet half this thread will be full of people whining about it.

salsa said:
:D

View attachment 198190
Click to expand...
Clearly no one can follow line markings in TO. The lead car has to take most of the blame, the rest of the idiots followed. "I'm gonna turn like I do in every intersection without looking at what i'm driving into". I don't know what lane the east to north lead car is turning into? Maybe he hopes to hit the right turning bus? Or the pedestrians behind the pylon?
 
Steve X said:
It was always designed to be put in the middle of the road at that location. Rob Ford got ML to change to an elevated line with ML doing little work on it. The plan was reverted to the original EA so there will be no need to consult with city council for an EA amendment. ML thought one amendment by shifting the line at Black Creek to an elevated structure was enough trouble. No one wanted to redo the EA and reconsult with the community again. They were getting close to tendering and more changes risk more delays.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, is my memory not correct that while Mayor Ford may have encouraged ML to look at an elevated route for the Laird-Kennedy portion, he didn't get it passed through Council. When the matter finally did come to Council they voted for the EA recommended surface alignment (there many have been other LRT lines included as well in the motion).

In other words, there was no public information provided (by City staff or ML) on what an elevated option would have looked like or involved. Also, for "The plan was reverted to the original EA so there will be no need to consult with city council for an EA amendment" do you mean "The plan was reverted to the original EA so there was will be no need to consult with city council for an EA amendment"?
 
Allandale25 said:
Just to be clear, is my memory not correct that while Mayor Ford may have encouraged ML to look at an elevated route for the Laird-Kennedy portion, he didn't get it passed through Council. When the matter finally did come to Council they voted for the EA recommended surface alignment (there many have been other LRT lines included as well in the motion).

In other words, there was no public information provided (by City staff or ML) on what an elevated option would have looked like or involved. Also, for "The plan was reverted to the original EA so there will be no need to consult with city council for an EA amendment" do you mean "The plan was reverted to the original EA so there was will be no need to consult with city council for an EA amendment"?
Click to expand...

I thought Rob Ford wanted the entire line underground, so I'm unsure where @Steve X gets that "Rob Ford got ML to change to an elevated line" (unless it's non-public information).

That aside... not mentioned at all in this discussion is that Metrolinx pushed to have the section between Laird and Don Mills changed to a bored tunnel beneath the Don Valley, with the Leslie and Ferrand Dr stops eliminated. They may have considered other surface options, but those were rejected in favor of a tunnel. Of course the documents have since been deleted as per Metrolinx's usual contempt for transparency, however I managed to pull a few slides from the deep web from a public consultation.

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This article goes into much more detail as to what transpired at the time, including what happened with the "south side alignment".
stevemunro.ca

Metrolinx Announces Design Changes and Public Meetings on Eglinton LRT (Update 8)

Updated June 17, 2013 at 6:15 pm: In the comment thread for this article, there has been substantial discussion about a “south side option” for the Eglinton LRT between the portal at Br…
stevemunro.ca stevemunro.ca



As for why we switched back to the original plan, you and @Steve X are correct. To elaborate... political posturing by councillor Robinson on behalf of some Leaside residents put pressure on Metrolinx to back down on eliminating the Leslie stop. The only way this would be feasible is to either go back to the original surface alignment, or pursue the "south side alignment". However because the latter would have required approval from city council, which at the time was too busy ripping up transit plans every six months and dealing with the mayor's crack scandal, Metrolinx had no confidence in their ability to make a decision in a timely manner and stick with it. Needless to say, "Fuck it, we're not touching you guys with a ten foot pole" was the easiest thing to do.
 
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