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Countdown timers/Peel Region Roads

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wyliepoon

Guest
I really like the new countdown timers on the pedestrian signals in Toronto and York Region. Now pedestrians and also drivers can make a decision on whether they should cross the street by looking at how much time is remaining until the light changes to yellow. They're brighter than the conventional signals and they save energy. What's there not to like about them?

Link to article

Countdown timers not warranted, Peel says
Pedestrian lights

Tanya Flanagan
National Post

Friday, February 02, 2007

Toronto is expanding its new pedestrian countdown timers to all of the city's 1,500 intersections, but Peel region says its experimentation with them hasn't warranted region-wide implementation.

Shawn Dillon, Toronto's supervisor of traffic signals, said the countdown timers will cost the city an estimated $17.7-million.

"The goal of this initiative is to improve pedestrian safety by helping them make better choices. Getting through the whole city is going to take some time, but at the end of the day we will see an energy savings of 85% with every signal that we complete."

More than 250 Toronto intersections have been converted to timers since the program launched in November as part of the city's conversion from incandescent to LED lights. The city is anticipating $2.1-million in annual energy savings.

And in a city where more than 200 pedestrians are hit every month, the city hopes the lights will also reduce the number of pedestrian accidents.

Peel will not be following Toronto's lead in implementing region wide pedestrian countdown timers, said Joe Avsec, the municipality's supervisor of traffic signals.

Although he said the timers are useful in certain locations, he is not convinced that their widespread implementation is warranted.

"They are useful in intersections that have a high potential for accidents, high pedestrian volume and seniors in the area, but they are not warranted in all intersections," Mr. Avsec said.

John Clarke, Mississauga's supervisor of traffic signal street lighting, said his city has tried the lights at certain intersections but they do not know enough about their utility or long-term costs to warrant Toronto's wide scale implementation.

Vancouver is also erring on the side of caution.

"They are a fairly new technology. We are trying to find out if there are any benefits in using them. We want to ensure that they are providing valuable information and additional safety for pedestrians. We work with taxpayers' money and we want to make sure that we use that wisely," said Vancouver's transportation engineer, Winston Chou.

Toronto is the first city in Canada to implement these units on a large scale and it aims to replace all of their pedestrian lights to countdowns by 2011.
 
Post: Countdown timers not warranted, Peel says

I love countdown timers, it makes me know if i have to run to make the light or wait 2 minutes again till it changes.

It makes sense for them to put them everywhere if they're going to save $2.1M a yr (in less than 9 yrs it pays off the $17.7M).
 
I don't find them terribly useful as a pedestrian because I still have no problem darting across an intersection to make it to the other side in time. But as a driver, I find them fantastic because there's no longer any guessing if it's worth it to speed up or slow down on the approach to a green light.
 
Peel will not be following Toronto's lead in implementing region wide pedestrian countdown timers

There aren't any pedestrians in Peel region anyway, so it doesn't really matter, does it? ;)
 
back in the days when i used to drive, i was stopped (inner most lane) at a intersection waiting for the light and a disabled man was walking very slowly in front of my car. the light turned green and i remained stopped (for a few moments) waiting for the guy in front of me to continue to walk through. next to my car at the intersection, the lane was empty and as soon as the guy walked infront of that lane, he almost got hit by a car because the car could not see him.

moral of the story - the guy got stuck crossing the road and almost killed because he didn't know when the light was going to change.

countdown timers will prevent collisions.
 
The problem with Peel is that very few of its roads have many pedestrians. Most of them are located in Caledon after all and very few in Mississauga. It is the city-owned roads that have the most pedestrians: Main/Hurontario, Dundas, Burnhamthorpe, Queen, Lakeshore, etc. Hopefully the cities Brampton and Mississauga install more countdown timers.
 
The Canadian way of endless delays and studying is kind of cute. I mean it seem as if every issue has to be approached with such caution and hesitation when ample well studied examples exist elsewhere in dozens of cities around the world that have decades of precedent.

On a personal note I think the signals are really positive, as mentioned for pedestrians but particularly drivers.
 
Their usefulness definitely outdoes the whistling and beeping sounds at some intersections :p

Now I can tell, when approaching a large intersection on my bicycle, if it's a good idea to start slowing down or not.
 
York Region has installed countdown timers. In fact the first timer I've ever seen in the GTA was at McCowan and 14th Avenue in Markham. Because the streets are much wider than in Toronto, the timer starts counting down at 20 seconds.
 
I've noticed the countdowns also seem to be giving streetcards signal priorty in some places. Definitely at Bay and Dundas I've seen it in action (the countdown hit zero while the streetcar was still boarding, but the light stayed green for several seconds longer so that the streetcar could clear the intersection)
 
I really like the countdowns. When there's 1 or 2 seconds left, I usually stay put and not try to dodge turning taxis on icy roads. I guess they're less useful in suburban areas, though, at least, not useful enough to warrant to cost of installing them. There's not a heck of a lot of suburban intersections where there's a constant flow of pedestrians always trying to cross...I suppose they may be warranted for drivers, but I don't drive so I don't know.
 
I would think that they are useful to the elderly or less mobile especially. A person who is only a few steps out onto the street can decide whether or not they can make it across or should head back to the sidewalk. Since every don't walk signal seems to have different timings and every intersection is a different width it gives the pedestrian much more information from which to make their decisions. I have heard drivers talk about how useful it is but I question how their use of the signal would be affecting safety as their field of vision spends an increased amount of time looking at a signal at the side of the road and causes them to push their gas pedal down further so as not to catch the yellow or red.
 
I've found the ones to be installed in Mississauga to be in weird places, but I've noticed a few more going up when lights get installed/replaced. It seems like Mississauga is still going forward with the installation of them. I'm glad I just rarely use a Peel operated road.
 
I totally agree with Chuck100. These seem way more useful to drivers than to pedestrians...I know I'll try to run across a street no matter how much time is left (although I do see how the elderly might like it).

What I don't understand is a) why doesn't it count down right from the start, and b) why doesn't it count down when the light is red too. It would be an easy change to make, and I think if you knew how long you had to wait to cross there would be a lot less jaywalking.
 
I find the countdown timer useful....

1. To determine how quickly I need to get to the corner -- if it is just about to go green then I have to rush so I can cross....

2. To determine whether to start crossing.

It also makes me feel better when waiting -- because I get some indicator that the long wait will someday come to an end :rollin
 

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