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Cities outside Toronto want better trains into T.O.

In GO long range plans, GO plans on running GO trains to K/W at peak time and then all day.

Any city within 120km of Toronto core that stills has a rail line to it will see GO service either as peak service or all day. All day service will be the norm.

Again, if GO wants to do this, then they must look at DMU/EMU as bi-level trains will never recover their operating cost.
 
That'd be nice, but what's long range mean? If this is still 15 to 20 years off, then there is the need for a bridge from what exists now to what will exist in the future.
 
I think these services should be integrated into GO, rather than be part of VIA's domain.
 
Currently in Niagara Region, where the local paper had an article yesterday calling for GO service to Grimsby, Lincoln and St. Catharines.
 
Would be interesting for some enterprising folk to exploit the opportunity for Ikea-esque "wine shuttle" jitneys from GO into Jordan, etc. (Though it'd just as likely be a Rochester Ferry-scaled flop...)
 
A critical issue with K-W is not inbound but outbound. I work for a firm with offices in Ontario and can get to Kingston or London on VIA trains departing about 0745 - I can't do that with K-W. With the on-train Wifi I can do research or connect to the firm VPN - can't do that on GO.

Perhaps with the West Toronto upgrading more slots will open up?

As for the Budd Cars - how old are those things? I looked them up on the internet and they seem to be 20-30 years old already?
 
Realistically, how much more traffic can be put through Union and downtown? How much more can the current infrastructure handle before we have to move to another model (electrification, expanding/optimizing platforms, etc.)?
 
They're already working on/planning resignalling the Union Station corridor to increase capacity. It's going to be a huge project!
 
As for the Budd Cars - how old are those things? I looked them up on the internet and they seem to be 20-30 years old already?

Double that. Though Industrial Rail Services in Moncton has RDCs refurbished to a high standard. They are used, for example, in Dallas.

I still think K-W is VIA turf, just like St. Catharines. VIA has and does provide a commuter service. (It ran the Bradford and Stoufville lines before GO took them over.) I don't hink anyone in St. Catharines or K-W would want to sit in a cramped, slow GO train instead of a roomier VIA train with less stops. An intermediate standard of service could be provided though - which would do K-W, Peterborough, Hamilton-Brantford, Niagara etc.
 
"Regardless of what plans are or are not in place, cities such as Guelph, Peterborough, Barrie, Kitchener/Waterloo and perhaps even Port Hope and Cobourg are going to find themselves more and more serving a role as commuter communities for the GTA."

Well in the case of Cobourg it is already pretty well served by VIA. Trains are going between Toronto and Montreal all day so a few of them stop in Cobourg. Now it isn't really good enough for commuting but there are many people who have a residence in both Toronto and Cobourg and they get back in forth by train, specifically retirees or day trippers.
 
Would be interesting for some enterprising folk to exploit the opportunity for Ikea-esque "wine shuttle" jitneys from GO into Jordan, etc. (Though it'd just as likely be a Rochester Ferry-scaled flop...)

Don't forget that you could run it into the casinos. Heck, if you could pick up at the airport, Lester B could become the gateway to Vegas North! And calling it the Golden Horseshoe would serve the double purpose of explaining geographically where it serves and have some implication of gambling...

Ah, to dream...

Greg
 
"They are also much more comfortable, enabling passengers to conduct their business while travelling to or from their destination."

I would disagree with this. Go Trains are better than regular city buses, but the GO buses are great. To me they're the most comfortable/luxurious public transit in the GTA.

As for the Barrie thing, a terminal there needs lots of parking if you want it to get used. Plus no matter where they build it, only a miniscule percentage of it's users would be able to walk there anyways. If you put that much parking in downtown Barrie, it will just clog up the streets downtown with traffic and take up a ton of space that could be put to more urban uses. Plus if the people are headed to Toronto anyway, it makes more sense to put it on the south side of the city.
 
www.guelphtribune.ca/trib...22411.html

Toronto Train Plan on Track
Doug Hallett, Guelph

(Jul 18, 2006)
A detailed study on improving rail passenger service to and from Toronto along a track that goes through Guelph has concluded that it's feasible at "reasonable" cost.

"The purpose is to provide an attractive alternative to the auto for long-distance travel," says transportation planning engineer Rajan Philips, who wrote a staff report on the study for last night's city council meeting.

The $40,000 study, done by a consulting firm hired by the North Mainline Municipal Alliance, sets out a business case for using self-propelled "diesel multiple units" (DMUs) rather than standard commuter trains for improved passenger rail service in southwestern Ontario.

The alliance was formed in 2003 to lobby the provincial and federal governments to fund improvements to the North Mainline tracks to allow better commuter and intercity rail passenger services. It includes the mayors of Guelph, Halton Hills, Kitchener, Waterloo, Stratford, St. Marys and London and the chair of Waterloo Region.

Activities include an obstacle course, a health and safety fashion show to promote safety in the workplace, and a barbecue to allow students to network, a news release said.

The centre links employers and youth and provides information on Government of Canada programs and services to help with summer employment, it said. Last year, it helped more than 600 postsecondary and secondary students find jobs.

For information, call 519-767-2559.

"Passenger rail service in the North Mainline is strong between Union (Station in Toronto) and Georgetown for commuter trips, and it is possible to move this Georgetown anchor point further west to a location between Guelph and Kitchener," says a report done for the alliance.

"A new western terminus for commuter services is suggested at or near Breslau, which with reasonable and committed track and signalling improvements" could provide an 80-minute commute into Toronto from there, it says.

The consultant doesn't favour using conventional GO equipment - a standard train set with one locomotive and several bi-level cars - west of Georgetown.

Instead, for flexibility to better meet the needs of southwestern Ontario travellers, it's proposed that smaller DMUs be used west of Georgetown. Passengers would transfer at Georgetown to GO trains using cross-platform connections.

The proposal would initially see four more trains to Toronto in the morning and four more back from Toronto in the afternoon on weekdays, in addition to the VIA trains that already go through Guelph. One of the four DMUs would go on to Stratford, St. Marys and London, while the others would stop at Breslau, at least initially.

As many of the 80-passenger DMUs as needed could be connected together, with two-unit trains proposed at the start.

Philips said a lot of people from this area drive now to Milton to catch the GO train, and many of these commuters would use the new service. The improved service would also benefit university students and others, and help reduce congestion on highways.

"It could happen any time," Philips said of the proposed service, with the next step being to begin to lobby the provincial and federal governments. The provinces now fund commuter rail services in Canada, while the federal government funds intercity rail service.

The refurbished DMUs being looked at are light rail cars made in New Brunswick that are similar to ones used now in Calgary and similar to what Waterloo Region is considering to link Elora with Cambridge. Costing $2 million each, they are "attractive in price and usability," Philips said.

DMUs could also be used to connect Cambridge to GO trains at Milton through Morriston.

A terminal at Breslau would avoid the delays of trains slowing down through Kitchener. People could drive there to park and ride, and buses and vans could also bring people in from points west, north and south to the trains, which would stop in Guelph.

Currently, CN's North Mainline "is characterized by old track that significantly reduces allowable train speeds, reduces ride comfort and lacks modern traffic control technology," says Philips' report to council.

It's proposed that improvements to the North Mainline be done in stages, with the 45-km stretch from Georgetown to Breslau done first at an estimated cost of $19 million. It would cost $17 to make improvements in a second stage to Stratford, and $22 million in a third stage to London, for a total of $58 million. Capital costs for buying the trains are estimated at $20 million.

"Revenue is more difficult to predict and would likely grow over time and through staging of services," the report says. The revenue range is estimated at $5.4 million to $10.8 million a year, with initial annual operating costs estimated at $3.5 million.

"The proposed rail service strategy is feasible at reasonable capital and operating costs," the consultants concluded.

The consultant's study addresses only infrastructure improvements required west of Georgetown.

Improvements are also needed east of Georgetown, but these have already been identified as part of rail expansion within the Greater Toronto Area, Philips said.

The consultant's report has been discussed with officials from GO Transit, the provincial Ministry of Transport, VIA Rail, CN Rail and Goderich Exeter Railway, which runs daily freight trains along the corridor.

No assessment has been done as to who should operate the new service. However, GO Transit officials have indicated that if they were to run it, they would prefer to use their own equipment rather than DMUs, the report notes.

----

And the editoral view from the Guelph paper...

www.guelphtribune.ca/trib...22502.html

Train Travel Has Pluses

(Jul 18, 2006)
It's fitting that a new city report on improving rail service between Guelph and Toronto using self-propelled diesel multiple units on the old CN North Mainline track comes just in time for smog season.

The proposed new western terminus at or near Breslau could provide an 80-minute commute to Toronto from there. The phased $58-million plan (plus $20 million to buy trains) would bring four more morning trains to Toronto and four more afternoon trains back. One of them would go on as far as London.

Any news about any new passenger rail service will be good news to area commuters. In past years, the province and VIA Rail have been quick to cut service and slow to respond to lobbying for reinstatement. It seemed to be a Catch-22 argument. Commuters who worked in or near Toronto argued there was no ridership because the train didn't leave Guelph early enough to allow inner-city commute time to work. Train officials at GO Transit and VIA argued that they weren't providing the service because there wasn't enough ridership. While daily commuters were the most vocal, rail users also called for better service for everything from day trips to medical appointments.

Meanwhile, calls for action by lobbyists pleading for less congestion on roads and better air quality seemed to be unheeded, other than official acknowledgement that this was a desirable goal. As for warnings about the limited supply of gas and oil, when was the last time the average person or politician acknowledged this as a problem to be reckoned with here and now?

The long-awaited report deserves serious consideration and, if feasible, strong political will.

The ISSUE

Train to, from Toronto

Our VIEW

Less congestion, better air quality
 
"The refurbished DMUs being looked at are light rail cars made in New Brunswick that are similar to ones used now in Calgary and similar to what Waterloo Region is considering to link Elora with Cambridge. Costing $2 million each, they are "attractive in price and usability," Philips said."

How many errors in that quote?

- DMUs are not light rail vehicles.
- Neither DMUs nor LRVs are made in New Brunswick.
- DMUs are not used in Calgary, and Calgary's LRVs are not similar to DMUs.
- There are no plans afoot to connect Elora, which is 23km north of Guelph, to Cambridge. They aren't even planning to build the Waterloo project to Elmira any more, which too is light rail, not DMU.
 
The possible DMU pilot project on the Stouffville line could give and other municipal agencies a good chance to see the results of using DMUs and be able to better estimate ridership, speed of service, passenger satisfaction, etc, and for those places that seem interested in this as a possible mode of transpot, to be able to devise much better financial plans for their case. I think the idea of providing better (or any) rail service to places such as Guelph, Waterloo, Peterborough, Barrie, etc are great in theory, but even I can understand a certain amount of caution being exercised in tackling projects such as this when the idea of true regional rail system has never really been done and there are still many unknowns involved in the process.
 

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