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Cities outside Toronto want better trains into T.O.

G

GregWTravels

Guest
www.therecord.com/NASApp/...4322199564

Local cities want better train service

TERRY PENDER AND KILLEEN KELLY


KITCHENER (Jun 21, 2006)

Armed with a new business case that details the costs involved, an alliance of cities and towns will lobby the federal and provincial governments for better train service into Toronto.

Yesterday, Waterloo regional councillors endorsed the call, and Kitchener city councillors did the same on Monday. In the coming days and weeks other members of the North Mainline Municipal Alliance, which includes Waterloo, Guelph, Stratford, St. Marys, London and Halton Hills, will do the same.

Regional Chair Ken Seiling said: "We all feel there's a swing back in Canada towards more support for rail. We think environmentally it's the way to go, we think practically it's a good way to go. We don't think the province, for example, can continue to build the road system and sustain that kind of traffic, so we think there's a lot of good reasons that both the federal and provincial governments should be moving in this direction."

Currently, Via operates three trains into and out of Toronto daily on the north mainline. The alliance wants that increased to four trains each way at higher speeds that will reduce the running time.

Added Kitchener Mayor Carl Zehr: "It's dealing with this issue of trying to get more people off the roads and onto rail service and I think it's just great."

The business case prepared by Dillon Consulting estimates that 500,000 to one million commuters would use the improved rail service between London and Toronto, generating $4.5 million to $9 million a year in revenues.

The ridership for intercity travel among the cities and towns along the north mainline is estimated at 40,000 to 70,000 annually, producing $1.5 million to $2.7 million in revenues.

The plans calls for new stations in Breslau and Acton, and improvements to level crossings in urban areas in order to accommodate faster trains.

The total cost of buying two self-propelled rail cars, known as Bud Cars, upgrading tracks and crossings and adding two new stations is estimated at $78.2 million. Annual revenues from the improved service are estimated to range from $5.8 million to $11.7 million.

Zehr called improved train service between Kitchener and Toronto a very urgent goal.

"The sooner that that happens both from a commuter standpoint, and from the standpoint of the casual traveller back and forth to Toronto, I think it's extremely important to get people off that 401," Zehr said.

Carla Ladd, Kitchener's chief administrative officer, said Breslau was chosen as the possible location for a new commuter station because it is thought more land is available there for parking than in downtown Kitchener.

Coun. Berry Vrbanovic knows firsthand what it takes to drive into and out of Toronto on the 401 every day for work. Vrbanovic worked in Toronto from 2002 to 2004, and watched his commute times increase significantly during those two years. And since then it's only become worse, he said.

"I had to go down to Toronto about a week ago for a meeting, and there were no accidents, no nothing, and it was two hours and 25 minutes to get to downtown Toronto. It's just nuts," Vrbanovic said.

"We need to see this kind of initiative moving forward," Vrbanovic said.

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I'm a little confused as to what they are specifically asking for, but I'm in favour of improved rail links in the region. It looks like improved VIA service and some manner of intercity regional trains for some of the destinations.

Greg
 
The proposal is to buy self-propelled cars (either the Budd cars like from the Blue22 proposal or Colorado cars) that will hold approximately 80 people each, for a total of 160 people per train. They would run 4 trains during the peak to meet up in Georgetown with the existing GO trains (I assume 2 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon). The cars would run from Kitchener to Georgetown, where riders would transfer to the GO train. The pricing will be similar to existing VIA service prices.

In addition, there will be a train a day running all the way to London to provide a supplement to existing VIA service (increasing, as they say, the number of trains from 3 to 4 from Union to London).
 
Proposals like this are likely going to become more common as people grow tired of sitting in traffic for long hours and dealing with rising gas prices. It is deffinitely an encouraging sign to see cities and municipalities making these requests.

That being said, I wonder more and more about how effect the current organization of rail service is. VIA is a federal agency so does it make sense for them to start getting into more and more inter-regional service? Likewise, it seems odd that a provincial agency is responsible for regional rail travel. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing VIA reduced to TransCanada travel and have most of their services handed over to new provincial agencies.

Rail travel in general really needs an overhaul and hopefully as more people begin to take the mode of transportation more seriously again, these kinds of discussions will start taking place.
 
I don't think they are specifically asking for VIA to provide the service - just some level of government at the provincial or federal level. It makes sense to either have this run by the province as part of GO, or as a supplement to GO.

I agree with you about VIA. I think they should split the company in two - a cross-Canada tourist service, which is basically the weekly train that runs out of Toronto to the west and the Atlantic train from Montreal. The second would be an intercity service for the Windsor-Quebec corridor.
 
I am not sure we need another money-losing government run entity. Would doubling up the management overhead really produce better transit results? I think the train-junkies on this forum need to consider the very low regard with which VIA is held by the national public.
 
I am not sure we need another money-losing government run entity. Would doubling up the management overhead really produce better transit results? I think the train-junkies on this forum need to consider the very low regard with which VIA is held by the national public.
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First point, most anti-VIA sentiment comes from the prarie provinces who resent the government subsidized service that makes but only a couple stops in their provinces. In provinces that actually have useful, more than twice weekly, service it is viewed in a somewhat better context. Its also worth pointing out that the TransCanada tourist trains are held in very high regards across the globe as one of the premier train trips available.

As for if it would be better to largely scrap VIA and put many of its services into the hands of Intercity consortium or the provinces? Well that is what debate is for. Reorganization does not guarantee better results by any means. That being said, rail service in Canada (more specificly the Quebec-Windsor corridor) is in need of serious work. Reducing federal involvment, increasing provincial involvement, perhaps privatizing or creating publicly owned consortiums would be of benefit for providing service or something such as track maintanance.
 
I think it is a great idea. These trains should go to Union Stn.

My fear is these "edge" cities want to benefit from the green belt. Pushing people every farther out.
 
My fear too, especially when I read stuff like this...

Carla Ladd, Kitchener's chief administrative officer, said Breslau was chosen as the possible location for a new commuter station because it is thought more land is available there for parking than in downtown Kitchener.
 
I see two things wrong with this. The first is that these trains would feed into the Georgetown trains. This makes it a long, in direct service into Toronto. VIA already has a train (#86) that serves Stratford, Kitchener and Guelph and runs into Union Station for 8:20 and makes stops in Georgetown and Brampton. A train in the evening does the trip out for commuters. Who would switch to this service? Georgetown does not offer cross-platform connections between GO and VIA because of the way Georgetown is set up (trains load passengers directly in the GO yards, through a tunnel from the station and VIA platform), and then make the milk run in on a less comfortable GO train? (Even with the one Georgetown express, the train stops at 3 stations in Brampton).

The second thing is that they want this to be a strict commuter service, and not provide the reverse trips. It would make sense to have a early morning train westbound, which they had when Amtrak's International ran, to serve the universities as well as reverse-commutes and other travel needs. I'm not against a station in Breslau with commuter parking, but Phase I needs to start in downtown Kitchener because it is closer to GRT and where people live and work.

Better to use the RDCs to supplement VIA's three trains a day to provide a morning westbound trip/early evening eastbound trip and perhaps another midday/early afternoon midday trip. And/or use the RDCs to add an extra commuter run to/from Union, stopping at places where VIA doesn't like Breslau and Acton, and providing more flexibility.
 
My fear too, especially when I read stuff like this...

Carla Ladd, Kitchener's chief administrative officer, said Breslau was chosen as the possible location for a new commuter station because it is thought more land is available there for parking than in downtown Kitchener.
Click to expand...

The problem is that if you have a station downtown, the limited parking is going to reduce the number of commuters who will park and ride. And Im not familiar with transit service in Kitchener/Waterloo but from what I do know its not as though the option of taking a bus or tram (oneday) to the station and transfering isnt a viable one for many people.

On the other hand, a station downtown or close to the densest part of the city makes sense because then you can build local transit around that station and over time make full transit trips viable to a lot more people. I think in the case of a place like Kitchener/Waterloo you really need to have both a downtown and park and ride station. It might cost a bit more money, but it makes the line more feasible when it first opens and allows for densification to take place as well.

I understand concerns that this could help fuel sprawl in cities such as K/W and turn them into bedroom suburbs for Toronto. While it does have that potential, it also gives the city a central station which it can begin to grow around and help create more density and better urban environments. Like most things, if done right it can help create a better regional rail network and help smaller cities on the fringes grow inward. Done poorly, it could very well create more sprawl. I see this as being a step in the right direction and so long as regional, political squabbling and nonsense can be put aside, a useful dialouge could actually begin to take place.
 
My fear is these "edge" cities want to benefit from the green belt. Pushing people every farther out.
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That's the whole idea. The Places to Grow plan directs growth away from suburban Toronto and toward existing cities outside the greenbelt, like Kitchener-Waterloo, Guelph, and Barrie.

Their hearts are in the right place, but this service seems very strange. More VIA trains coupled with extended GO trains seems a much more obvious solution. I think they're just getting so fed up with GO and VIA ignoring their communities.

This service should be useful for people commuting from Kitchener to Guelph and vice versa. There are more of them than commuters to Toronto, and they are obviously clogging up Highway 7.
 
Does the planned KW light rail go downtown, near the train station?
 
It does - it follows King Street through Kitchener. There are also plans to move the railway station closer to King Street (it is a few blocks east) and build a new transportation centre at King and Victoria, IIRC.
 
My fear is these "edge" cities want to benefit from the green belt. Pushing people every farther out.
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If we're worried about sprawl in Kitchener-Waterloo and London, perhaps the province should designate greenbelts around those cities as well.
 
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