Chinatown East: Zhong Hua Men Gate

[jje1000]

From the cities I've visited with notable Chinatown gates, I think Montreal has the best arrangement. The two gates along St. Laurent at both entrances into the area, along with the smaller gates along with the two smaller ones on the pedestrian only Rue De La Gauchetière. While other places like Ottawa, Philadelphia, Vancouver, Seattle and Portland have them on more conventionally situated streets.

I haven't checked with the BIA before but I could imagine this is well on the back burner.

Montreal's gates definitely help define the edges of the neighbourhood, while making it feel more like an enclave.

In other cities, the gate often acts instead as a focal point/landmark within the Chinatown rather than a boundary marker, or it acts as a singular gateway from a certain approach. In these cases, the neighbourhood borders are usually amorphous, sometimes blending into the rest of the city. I also think the gates work best on narrower, well-framed streets- London's Chinatown gates are also great (as is the Chinatown- vibrant and well-defined, if compact).

That being said, few of the older traditional Chinatowns in North America are in particularly good health- which may affect one's perception of the archway. I certainly felt that with some Chinatowns, the gate was bigger than the community left behind it!

Of note- the Spadina Chinatown did sort of have an unofficial gate at one point- at China Court, ironically where Chinatown Centre stands today.

 

[AlbertC]

Montreal's gates definitely help define the edges of the neighbourhood, while making it feel more like an enclave.

In other cities, the gate often acts instead as a focal point/landmark within the Chinatown rather than a boundary marker, or it acts as a singular gateway from a certain approach. In these cases, the neighbourhood borders are usually amorphous, sometimes blending into the rest of the city. I also think the gates work best on narrower, well-framed streets- London's Chinatown gates are also great (as is the Chinatown- vibrant and well-defined, if compact).

That being said, few of the older traditional Chinatowns in North America are in particularly good health- which may affect one's perception of the archway. I certainly felt that with some Chinatowns, the gate was bigger than the community left behind it!

Of note- the Spadina Chinatown did sort of have an unofficial gate at one point- at China Court, ironically where Chinatown Centre stands today.

I find that as the growth of the GTA's Chinese population accelerated towards Scarborough and the suburbs during the 90's and throughout the 2000's, the initiative towards re-establishing a gate in the downtown central Chinatown waned. Especially as the focus became directed towards building business in the form of shopping malls and plazas elsewhere.

What has sort of helped the central Chinatown bounce back in the recent 5-10 years has been the increase of eateries that appear to cater to the younger international students crowd. Such as bubble tea shops, noodles or hot pot restaurants, and northern Chinese cuisine in general compared to the traditional Cantonese or Vietnamese ones that used to dominate the area. Majority of the newer places that have opened up are within this category, especially the ones on Spadina closer to College which have replaced what used to be a large amount of vacant storefronts.

 

[jje1000]

I find that as the growth of the GTA's Chinese population accelerated towards Scarborough and the suburbs during the 90's and throughout the 2000's, the initiative towards re-establishing a gate in the downtown central Chinatown waned. Especially as the focus became directed towards building business in the form of shopping malls and plazas elsewhere.

What has sort of helped the central Chinatown bounce back in the recent 5-10 years has been the increase of eateries that appear to cater to the younger international students crowd. Such as bubble tea shops, noodles or hot pot restaurants, and northern Chinese cuisine in general compared to the traditional Cantonese or Vietnamese ones that used to dominate the area. Majority of the newer places that have opened up are within this category, especially the ones on Spadina closer to College which have replaced what used to be a large amount of vacant storefronts.

Definitely agree on this- Chinatown has survived to this point because it caters less to the local community (which has dispensed across the city), but has found a new niche with the U of T crowd.

This means fewer stores catering to community amenities like salons and herbal stores, but more diverse & authentic eateries and higher-end specialty retail. This does keep the neighbourhood from feeling moribund or downmarket-touristy, which is what many other Chinatowns have become- but to the concern of some, it also means that Chinatown is less of a cohesive community now.

The strength of the adjacent neighbourhoods should also not be discounted though- having areas like Kensington Market, Queen West and Baldwin Village nearby tremendously improves the appeal of Chinatown as a destination.


I found New York's Chinatowns (Manhattan + Flushing) to be the more vibrant and cohesive Chinatowns in North America, but I think that's probably because until fairly recently, the city was an entryway and entrepôt for low-income immigrants (including a large number of undocumented/illegal immigrants who find safety in the area), and possesses a huge stock of relatively affordable housing. They were probably the few Chinatowns that grew since the 90s, but New York's affordability issues (more pronounced in Manhattan) are having an impact.

In most other cities, the suburbs have taken the place of the traditional Chinatown as the entryways to the city (as the new arrivals are usually wealthier and more discerning), which means that without new blood, the Chinatowns have aged up as the second generation moves away.

How Has Chinatown Stayed Chinatown?

Against all odds, an ethnic monolith still exists within the most gentrified island on Earth. In part because of these 21 people.

nymag.com

Will luxury towers edge out the last of the working-class Chinese in New York’s iconic Chinatown?

One of the city’s few remaining neighborhoods for lower-income residents is fighting to preserve a way of life.

www.vox.com

 

[AlbertC]

Definitely agree on this- Chinatown has survived to this point because it caters less to the local community (which has dispensed across the city), but has found a new niche with the U of T crowd.

This means fewer stores catering to community amenities like salons and herbal stores, but more diverse & authentic eateries and higher-end specialty retail. This does keep the neighbourhood from feeling moribund or downmarket-touristy, which is what many other Chinatowns have become- but to the concern of some, it also means that Chinatown is less of a cohesive community now.

The strength of the adjacent neighbourhoods should also not be discounted though- having areas like Kensington Market, Queen West and Baldwin Village nearby tremendously improves the appeal of Chinatown as a destination.


I found New York's Chinatowns (Manhattan + Flushing) to be the more vibrant and cohesive Chinatowns in North America, but I think that's probably because until fairly recently, the city was an entryway and entrepôt for low-income immigrants (including a large number of undocumented/illegal immigrants who find safety in the area), and possesses a huge stock of relatively affordable housing. They were probably the few Chinatowns that grew since the 90s, but New York's affordability issues (more pronounced in Manhattan) are having an impact.

In most other cities, the suburbs have taken the place of the traditional Chinatown as the entryways to the city (as the new arrivals are usually wealthier and more discerning), which means that without new blood, the Chinatowns have aged up as the second generation moves away.

How Has Chinatown Stayed Chinatown?

Against all odds, an ethnic monolith still exists within the most gentrified island on Earth. In part because of these 21 people.

nymag.com

Will luxury towers edge out the last of the working-class Chinese in New York’s iconic Chinatown?

One of the city’s few remaining neighborhoods for lower-income residents is fighting to preserve a way of life.

www.vox.com

The convenient location and walkability to neighbouring vibrant areas certainly does work to the advantage of the central Chinatown. The ongoing redevelopment of Alexandra Park should also provide an additional boost in the future. As it introduces an influx of local population, along with reintegrating what was often previously seen as a large area disconnected altogether. Gradual and gentle intensification along Spadina and Dundas should help as well, as long as they maintain focus on implementing affordable and flexible retail spaces along grade level.

New York's Chinatowns in Manhattan, Flushing, and a few in Brooklyn have always been an interesting case study. The rise in immigrants from the Fujian province have definitely aligned to their growth from the 90's and onwards. They've contributed to much of the blue collared working class, and have gradually moved onto various places across the US. In both Toronto and New York, the early immigration patterns began similarily with the Cantonese and Vietnamese-Chinese. But then Toronto (along with Vancouver) appear to have received a larger caption of immigrants from Hong Kong. Afterwards, as New York (and the US) gained a large increase of Fujianese immigrants, Toronto (and Canada) gained a large increase of immigrants relatively even from among different places in Mainland China. However, instead of the traditional blue collared class there's instead been a rise in more professional designations or wealthy newcomers from the Investment Immigration program and such. In these cases, they often bypass the traditional Chinatown and head straight for the burbs.

I also find that the urban environment, available current building stock, and spacial limitations to have contributed to the differences in Toronto and New York's Chinatowns. In Toronto's boroughs and suburbs, there's large amounts of previously under developed land which have grown to become new residential and commercial spaces for those communities. However, in the New York metro area it's really uncommon to be seeing large spaces becoming ethnic centric shopping malls and plazas. Which is why most of their commercial areas are still bound with urban setting even in Flushing. Outside of the GTA, you'd typically need to look at British Columbia or California to see Asian centric shopping centres.

 

[Johnny Au]

I find having a gate right across Spadina to be unrealistic due to those reasons of budget, width of the street, and complexity of accommodating for the streetcar wiring. Plus the impact caused by construction and future maintenance over such a busy street. Dundas would work more easily being of more manageable width, although once again the streetcar also comes into play.

From the cities I've visited with notable Chinatown gates, I think Montreal has the best arrangement. The two gates along St. Laurent at both entrances into the area, along with the smaller gates along with the two smaller ones on the pedestrian only Rue De La Gauchetière. While other places like Ottawa, Philadelphia, Vancouver, Seattle and Portland have them on more conventionally situated streets.

I haven't checked with the BIA before but I could imagine this is well on the back burner.

Montreal's gates definitely help define the edges of the neighbourhood, while making it feel more like an enclave.

In other cities, the gate often acts instead as a focal point/landmark within the Chinatown rather than a boundary marker, or it acts as a singular gateway from a certain approach. In these cases, the neighbourhood borders are usually amorphous, sometimes blending into the rest of the city. I also think the gates work best on narrower, well-framed streets- London's Chinatown gates are also great (as is the Chinatown- vibrant and well-defined, if compact).

That being said, few of the older traditional Chinatowns in North America are in particularly good health- which may affect one's perception of the archway. I certainly felt that with some Chinatowns, the gate was bigger than the community left behind it!

Of note- the Spadina Chinatown did sort of have an unofficial gate at one point- at China Court, ironically where Chinatown Centre stands today.

What do you think of Washington, DC's paifang?

Me, I believe that it could serve as a model for the paifang on Spadina.

 

[AlbertC]

What do you think of Washington, DC's paifang?

Me, I believe that it could serve as a model for the paifang on Spadina.

DC's gate looks nice, and Ottawa has a good one as well. But I personally don't think it's realistic to have one going across Spadina. The width required would be approximately twice the one in DC along with complications still to be considered for the streetcar wiring, and the budget probably isn't there anyways. If there ever was to be one built, then having it at the square outside Chinatown Centre may be the most doable location.

 

[Northern Light]

When this idea was most recently discussed, the number I heard tossed around was $6,000,000 for a budget.

Not sure what that buys you in terms of scale.

That was a couple of years ago.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

DC's gate looks nice, and Ottawa has a good one as well. But I personally don't think it's realistic to have one going across Spadina. The width required would be approximately twice the one in DC along with complications still to be considered for the streetcar wiring, and the budget probably isn't there anyways. If there ever was to be one built, then having it at the square outside Chinatown Centre may be the most doable location.

You can probably do it along Dundas. Having said that, I find the whole notion of these gates a little clichéd - I much rather have a public park done in proper Chinese garden style.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

You can probably do it along Dundas. Having said that, I find the whole notion of these gates a little clichéd - I much rather have a public park done in proper Chinese garden style.

AoD

Why not both? The gate as entry to the garden

 

[AlbertC]

Although IMO on the unlikelier to happen side, I see opportunity to have a garden among the Alexandra Park redevelopment.

Vancouver's is pretty well known, but I was pleasantly surprised by the Lan Su Garden in Portland, Oregon.

Lan Su Chinese Garden

lansugarden.org