Change To Canadian Policy - Scary or No?

[reganrants]

Hi, recently the goverment made a policy change whereby Banks, no longer have to return cheques to clients.

Generally this is a paid service, but apparently the service has been removed regardless of fees & from here on in - Clients will only be able to keep track of their cheques via a scanned image on their statements.

See, here's the problem - I like cheques, I like proof of payment, in my hand, of a form that is not easily tampered with. I like to see the back AND the front, so that if someone tries to tell me, they never received the funds - I can say, well - Talk to THIS BANK, visible by the stamp on the back cause' they're the ones who got the money.

My bank, scotiabank - seems to have decided, (clarifying as I write) they will only scan ONE side - the side without the stamp - Probably, because it saves them time & money in labour.

Not Acceptable.

I used to work for an insurance company owned indirectly/somehow/whatever by TD BANK.

- I will NEVER forget the day, a colleague called me over - who was handling complaints to show me a cheque that a client had sent us - Plus one heck of a seething letter.

She owed say XXX.01 dollars... She wrote the cheque for XXX dollars - without the cent - WE, or rather TD BANK, went and took the amount we wanted.

The lady, probably due to duress & unclear thinking - Sent us the cheque to show us why she was mad.

Big Mistake. No matter what she owed us for the Insurance, just because TD had some influence over it - We had NO RIGHT to just go & take what we wanted, were owed.

That's the purpose of a cheque - that's why you have to write it in numbers & in longhand.

Doesn't seem to matter anymore, at least it didn't for that lady.

I wish, i had had the balls, to take that cheque, and mail it back to her with the simple words

CALL A LAWYER NOW!!!


I believe this situation, the matter of having visible, untamperable proof is your hands is an absolute MUST when it comes down to situations of financial dispute.

This policy happened, yeah yeah - apparently there was a mailing but I'm writing this letter because, understanding the world is moving quicker & we have deemed electronic communications to be the new field,

I STILL WANT MY EFFIN' CHEQUE back in my hand - So I can see who cashed it - And what this policy is doing is setting up a field where clients either CANNOT get that proof/info, or will have to pay a fee to get it.

Last time i talked to scotia about this - They wanted 60$.

Comments - Feedback - I really think, in a world where corporations, who are really just an idea, not actual people - are totally out of control, these things should be paid attention to.

I'm waiting to hear from my bank cause' it seems Scotiabank may only be doing one side - But Meridian Credit Union is doing both.

Supporting Companies that Support People, Not Problems,

Cheers!

 

[EnviroTO]

I have deposited cheques that weren't even written to me into an ATM and had them go through without problems. If people think every check deposited in an ATM is getting scrutinized they are kidding themselves.

 

[reganrants]

Clarification - Nothing to Do with ATM

Hi, yes - but if you opted to have 'Cheques Returned' to you - a service my bank was charging 2$ per month for - You no longer have that option.

We're not talking about you depositing a cheque, we're talking about - if you pay someone in a cheque - and you get your cheque back - You can see, what date, what time, and what branch actually cashed the check.

If all you ever receive of that is a scanned image of the front, and someone says - well i never got it, but the money has already been deducted, you can't show their bank did process it.

And sometimes, being people - things get messed up - But if you're able to show that the payee's bank did receive the funds - You don't have to pay your own bank to investigate it and it might cost your less in legal costs if you already have that documentation.

It might not be something everyones concerned about - But like i said, if that lady had had her cheque, showing TD took an amount not authorized by her,

I'm pretty sure she could have made a darn good argument against the bank - Even if she did owe 1 cent more to a totally different company (who unlucky for her, was owned by the Bank she did biz with..)

 

[reganrants]

Confirmation - Scotiabank - Only Scanning Front Part

Just received a call - Confirmed: Scotia will only be scanning the front side.

Cheers! = )

 

[EnviroTO]

We're not talking about you depositing a cheque, we're talking about - if you pay someone in a cheque - and you get your cheque back - You can see, what date, what time, and what branch actually cashed the check.

You have to check your facts. I'm talking about DEPOSITING a cheque that wasn't even written to me. The person who wrote the cheque would get their cheque back, scanned or not, and without the back of the cheque and knowing my account they wouldn't be able to prove the person actually received the funds. They would know somebody received the funds but not exactly who. The bank doesn't print the account holder on the back or front of the cheque for verification purposes.

 

[reganrants]

Ongoing response/info - clarification of processes

Hi, um - i'm not sure we're on the same page, here's what i meant. And maybe, i'm just so old school most people don't even remember cheques.

When a cheque is processed, it's stamped with a stamp marker on the back which states: Who the payable party is, and what account it was deposited to.

So the person processing your cheque, has to have the proper account info up in front of them to complete the transaction. The stamp & the account the money is sent to should match.

If human error occurs, which hey - last time I checked, it does - I have the account info stamped on the back - so i can say, well - it went to this account, your bank said it did via the stamp - Talk to them cause' i have proof right here, your bank said they got it.

** Make more sense? Again, i recognize i am in a shrinking demographic of cheque users ; )


Also: Noted the bank will investigate disputes for me, at a fee per cheque, and the service fee, for just having the cheques scanned to your statement is 2$, but before was 2.50$

I'd rather pay five, and get both sides ; )

 

[reganrants]

Eep

Hey Enviro T - i just re-read you post - That's even more scary, depositing cheques not written to you.

That's like a whole new thread. ; p

 

[afransen]

I've been responsible for the finances of a non-profit with reasonably large revenues. I've received cheques back that were endorsed by only one of the minimum two authorized individuals, didn't have the date field filled, etc. They honestly don't seem to check for these things. It was CIBC. They, for the moment, continue to return cheques. Maybe you should shop around for a bank that plans to implement a system that reads both sides of the cheque. This is all done by a very high volume cheque reading machine, so it's a matter of what a paticular bank decides to go with.

This has already happened in the US, it was only a matter of time before it happened here.

 

[cruzin4u]

I am with CIBC and I get my checks back. I am with you regan, I like getting the physical checks back, so I can look them over and make sure everything is ok. I am not sure if CIBC will be going digital or whatever, so I'll pop into my branch tomorrow and ask around.

 

[reganrants]

CHEQUES RETURNED vs Scanned Image Only....?

Hi Cruzin4U, thanks buddy - It's like You and me, no one else cares about the poor cheques ; )

I think, if i understand it correctly - it's a blanket policy, so NO bank is now allowed to offer the physical cheque return.

But research continues ; )

So far: Hepcoe: Both Sides

Scotiabank: One Side

RBC: 'Getting back to me on it'

HSBC: Both sides, but I'm not convinced they were talking about statements with the images on them, think she just thought I meant do they scan both sides into their own systems.

Overall, I'm finding most Staff aren't even aware of it - But Hepcoe knew right away.

No, this is not a plug for Hepcoe/Meridian, i just appreciate companies who keep their staff updated ; )


More Info to Come, research research research... ; )

Note: Scotia fees for PULLING UP YOUR OWN CHEQUE FOR YOU - (but you still can't have it..) 30$ per hour, 15$ minimum.

Man, i'm gonna' outsource myself as a cheque puller-upper for 20$ an hour, undercut the mofo's ; )

Cheers!

 

[reganrants]

Thans Afrasen ; )

Hey, thanks for the feedback.

Well, last time I checked - we're still Canada (For how long.. eepa' ; )


But, if it's done by a high volume machine - there's gotta' be a setting for two side or one side scanning

if that's the case, then I really see absolutely no reason for not scanning both sides

except under the guise of placing all onus of provability onto clients

and collecting fees & 30$ per hour fees to do it..

Hmm..

research continues ; )

 

[reganrants]

Oops Sorry - Afransen ; )

; )

 

[reganrants]

Operational Costs in Storage Capacity

Oh wait,

of course there is a reason - They don't wanna' pay for the extra storage space required to store the image files....

Mulling, mulling.. ; )

 

[afransen]

I imagine that they if they don't read both sides of the cheque, it's because the machine only has a scanner on one side. I'm sure these scanner heads are fairly expensive, as they are very high volume. So one side would likely be slightly cheaper than both. I'm not sure the data is a huge concern... storage is relatively cheap these days.

 

[afransen]

FYI, my bank, PC Financial (Amicus/CIBC) scans both sides.