Buying a unit on the pool/party room floor?

[ILuvTO]

Went to see a unit at a condo in the core. Really liked it. Very unique layout. Only concern is that it is on the same floor as the pool and party room. Has anyone ever lived in a unit on this floor? Was it noisy and not worth it? Was resale negatively impacted?

 

[WillTo]

Well of course resale will be negatively affected, but you are probably buying it at a discount from what a comparable unit on another floor would cost. So you will have to sell it less than what a comparable unit will cost when the time comes.

We have a 24 gym in my building. There is a unit that shares a wall with the gym but it is a big unit so it is the unit's living area that is next to the gym. The bedroom is next to the living area. I was paranoid about causing a disturbance at 11pm at night. However I once caught the guy walking from the gym to his unit (btw his muscles were huge. Probably because it is so convenient for him to go to the gym) and asked him if he was distrubed at night. He seemed very laid back about it and said he didn't really hear anything except when a weight drops on the floor sometimes. But he seemed very chill about the whole thing.

There is quite a big of separation between the gym/party room and the other units on the floor, however there is probably alot of foot traffic.

If you are really interested but still concerned, I would honestly go back and do some tests. Different buildings transport noise differently. Listen for noise while in the bedroom.

Also is it a 24hr gym or restricted hours? (note anything could change) Is it a young building where the party room would be used every night?

 

[neuhaus]

I had a colleague who was renting a unit above the party room of a 45 storey condo building and it was not so pleasant for them. There were over 500 units in the building and the room gets used frequently. The heavy bass from the music caused the worst disturbance and sometimes parties will last pretty late until the night even though rules for quiet times exists in the building.

I wouldn't suggest buying a unit above or below a building amenity, and definitely on the same floor as one as there will be lots more traffic, noise and wear and tear on that floor. Party rooms often involve alcohol so you will get more loud and rowdy behaviour and there will be more guests/strangers there so they tend to care less of the building. Some condos do have a set of doors which separate the elevator lobby and amenities from the corridor to the units on that floor which will help isolate noise and disturbances.
Review the condo rules and regulations on the hours these amenities could be used, the maximum capacity of the party room, if a security/damage deposit or fee is required to rent a party room (that will help weed out irresponsible users of the room), and if/how security staff takes care of bookings of the room, etc.

 

[DSC]

A lot would depend on the building and on what 'demographic' it has. As noted above, there is usually a 'discount' on units close to amenities (and MPAC takes it into account too) but there are 'party rooms" and "party rooms". As suggested by neuhaus I would certainly check to see what the hours of operation are and look carefully at the kind of building (and how well built) it is. It is actually easier for a Condo Board to deal with noise from a 'common element" area like a party room or exercise room than dealing with a noisy owner - at least for common elements the Board can adjust the hours, police bookings and if necessary adjust any sound-proofing.

 

[ILuvTO]

Well of course resale will be negatively affected, but you are probably buying it at a discount from what a comparable unit on another floor would cost. So you will have to sell it less than what a comparable unit will cost when the time comes.

If you are really interested but still concerned, I would honestly go back and do some tests. Different buildings transport noise differently. Listen for noise while in the bedroom.

Also is it a 24hr gym or restricted hours? (note anything could change) Is it a young building where the party room would be used every night?

Thanks for the reply. This unit is discounted by about $50-$60/psf from other units in the building from what I can tell so you are right about that. There is no gym on the floor. The unit is on the 6th floor and gym on the 4th. The only amenities on the 6th floor are the party room and pool/outdoor terrace area. I was initially thinking to wait for another unit like this one to come up on a higher floor, however this layout is a one off in the building due to the floor it is on. It also has higher ceilings (11.5' by my guess) due to it being on this particular floor.

When I was walking through the units the residents seemed to be mid 20's to mid 30's age range. It felt more mature, but it wasn't a Saturday night so who knows. The building itself is close to St. Andrew subway away from the King and Spadina, King and Portland crowd (I'm hoping!).

I had a colleague who was renting a unit above the party room of a 45 storey condo building and it was not so pleasant for them. There were over 500 units in the building and the room gets used frequently. The heavy bass from the music caused the worst disturbance and sometimes parties will last pretty late until the night even though rules for quiet times exists in the building.

I wouldn't suggest buying a unit above or below a building amenity, and definitely on the same floor as one as there will be lots more traffic, noise and wear and tear on that floor. Party rooms often involve alcohol so you will get more loud and rowdy behaviour and there will be more guests/strangers there so they tend to care less of the building. Some condos do have a set of doors which separate the elevator lobby and amenities from the corridor to the units on that floor which will help isolate noise and disturbances.
Review the condo rules and regulations on the hours these amenities could be used, the maximum capacity of the party room, if a security/damage deposit or fee is required to rent a party room (that will help weed out irresponsible users of the room), and if/how security staff takes care of bookings of the room, etc.

All good advice. Thank you. I will look into these things. All the concerns you mentioned are the same ones I am worried about. This building does have a door to separate the units on the floor from the amenities. And this particular unit does not share any walls with the party room.

A lot would depend on the building and on what 'demographic' it has. As noted above, there is usually a 'discount' on units close to amenities (and MPAC takes it into account too) but there are 'party rooms" and "party rooms". As suggested by neuhaus I would certainly check to see what the hours of operation are and look carefully at the kind of building (and how well built) it is. It is actually easier for a Condo Board to deal with noise from a 'common element" area like a party room or exercise room than dealing with a noisy owner - at least for common elements the Board can adjust the hours, police bookings and if necessary adjust any sound-proofing.

Thank you for the reply. I will definitely look into this.

 

[ElDee]

I live near the entrance to the amenities area for my building, and it's been fine. The most frequent noises are from people coming and going through the entrance to the gym. It's a heavy door with a loud fob reader and latch. I got used to it after a while, I guess. I can hear the loud talkers and the occasional screaming kids, but it's all just passing noise that's over in a second or two.

Once every 2 months or so there would be a big party and I could hear people coming and going to the party room, doors shutting, etc. Maybe once a year someone would throw a summer party and bring the loud speakers. I would feel it in our unit. They've been pretty good with the 11pm rule. Generally speaking, the overall amount of noise and activity doesn't bother me. YMMV.

I don't intend to sell any time soon, and so I'm not sure how much mine is worth. Been living here for years. My neighbours sold at some decent prices earlier in the year though.

 

[rbt]

I had a colleague who was renting a unit above the party room of a 45 storey condo building and it was not so pleasant for them. There were over 500 units in the building and the room gets used frequently. The heavy bass from the music caused the worst disturbance and sometimes parties will last pretty late until the night even though rules for quiet times exists in the building.

Condo corporations have a legal requirement that they enforce their rules, and can be sued for loss in value when they don't. Of course, the board sometimes needs to be reminded of this and I would expect a tenant to leave rather than push their landlord to take action.

Anyway, many of the larger buildings (the ones that take this obligation seriously at least) require a security guard at all parties to ensure that the party doesn't disrupt neighbouring residents. They also help ensure your party doesn't get crashed, which sadly also happens on occasion.

 

[TheKingEast]

I wouldn't do it. A lot of foot traffic and the constant noise. Don't listen to anyone that says the soundproofing was bumped up to block the noise. Whether that's true or not, you still hear a lot of noise from the gym. Even at Loblaws at Maple Leaf Gardens, I can hear weights hit the ground. This is in a commercial building that's huge. I hear this over all the people in the store. Vibrates right through the concrete. Buildings have so much trouble with this. I'd stay away if I were you, but if you're curious, you should test it out yourself. As far as parties, the rules may say one thing, but some buildings have a lot of parties. Even though there's a security guard, things can still get pretty loud. One thing to remember is people will be in the hallway talking, shouting and you will hear everything. Sound will easily go through your front door since new condos don't have any kind of soundproofing between the suite entry door and the jam.

Think about it. There's a reason why that unit is so heavily iscounted. This will also be a problem when you sell. Think about it.

 

[ILuvTO]

I wouldn't do it. A lot of foot traffic and the constant noise. Don't listen to anyone that says the soundproofing was bumped up to block the noise. Whether that's true or not, you still hear a lot of noise from the gym. Even at Loblaws at Maple Leaf Gardens, I can hear weights hit the ground. This is in a commercial building that's huge. I hear this over all the people in the store. Vibrates right through the concrete. Buildings have so much trouble with this. I'd stay away if I were you, but if you're curious, you should test it out yourself. As far as parties, the rules may say one thing, but some buildings have a lot of parties. Even though there's a security guard, things can still get pretty loud. One thing to remember is people will be in the hallway talking, shouting and you will hear everything. Sound will easily go through your front door since new condos don't have any kind of soundproofing between the suite entry door and the jam.

Think about it. There's a reason why that unit is so heavily iscounted. This will also be a problem when you sell. Think about it.

Thanks, ElDee, rbt, and TheKingEast. Appreciate your input.

TKE, at the end of the day I know you are right. Just a shame this is the only floor this particular floor plan is on. I do like other layouts in the building. Just need to be patient and hope one comes on the market for sale.

In terms of the gym, it is on the 4th floor and the unit is on the 6th floor. Do you still think the noise would be noticeable in that scenario?

 

[Rod]

It's a red flag for me. Unless it's really at the end of the hall were others typically wouldn't go. Also if you have a proper foyer that doesn't interfe with the sound too much from the outside suite then you should be fine. But it's best when amenities are completely on a Seperate floor.

 

[TheKingEast]

Thanks, ElDee, rbt, and TheKingEast. Appreciate your input.

TKE, at the end of the day I know you are right. Just a shame this is the only floor this particular floor plan is on. I do like other layouts in the building. Just need to be patient and hope one comes on the market for sale.

In terms of the gym, it is on the 4th floor and the unit is on the 6th floor. Do you still think the noise would be noticeable in that scenario?

hmm, that's better. Thing is you'll probably still hear some noise but not as bad. I still don't like the fact that it's on the same floor as the party room. Do you have a floorplan of the unit? If the living room is far from the entry door and there is a long hallway within the unit to distance living areas form the front door, it might not be that bad.

 

[ILuvTO]

hmm, that's better. Thing is you'll probably still hear some noise but not as bad. I still don't like the fact that it's on the same floor as the party room. Do you have a floorplan of the unit? If the living room is far from the entry door and there is a long hallway within the unit to distance living areas form the front door, it might not be that bad.

I've uploaded the floor plan. In the bottom left you can see the floor plate for the floor. The yellow highlighted area is the party room. The area in orange is a sitting room. The area in green is a bathroom/change room. And the area in blue is the outdoor pool and terrace. So the bedroom of this unit would be beside the change room/bathroom with the hallway behind the elevator and the sitting area beside the next unit on the floor. The picture also doesn't show that there is a door separating the three units from the elevator area.

On a side note, I did another analysis and so far only three units have sold in the building as it just recently closed. All of them were on higher floors. They sold for:

$638/psf (1B+D - 625 sqft - 32nd floor - balcony - no parking)
$654/psf (1B+D - 762 sqft - 8th floor - no balcony - no parking)
$670/psf (1B+D - 625 sqft - 35th floor - same layout as the first one - balcony - no parking).

Based on the above this unit isn't really good value considering the floor it is on.

The units listed on MLS for sale currently are all asking for over $700/sqft and in some cases over $800 for 2B units with parking on high floors. Yikes! Good luck to the sellers.

There is also an empty lot directly across the street from this unit that is going to get developed into a 12-17 storey tower according to the agent, so there will be construction noise to eventually contend with and new neighbours looking right into the sitting area.

 

[tripwire]

I'm with TheKingEast and others, I wouldn't do it. I had the same option when buying my current condo and I'm really glad I didn't take the unit on the same floor as the party room and roof deck. It's a lot of extra foot traffic and noise, not only from residents of the building, but also outside guests.

 

[neuhaus]

ILuvTO: I am very familiar with that building and walked through the amenity spaces there.
It is a relatively smaller building with about 235 units and is much higher end that the typical condos in Toronto (there are a lot of pricier units in this building). The hallway to those three units on the 6th floor is separated from the elevator lobby with a set of doors so it will be much quieter. The party room is at the opposite corner of the floor and the pool area is not that big, so I can't imagine a ton of people using it at one time. The common area directly to the south of that unit is the shower/wash off area leading to the pool so you won't get much noise. One good thing about being on this floor is that you could conveniently and quickly go to the pool in your swimsuit for a quick dip or swim, though the pool is rather small and not ideal for laps.

There are two large high rises planned right behind on Adelaide: 19 Duncan which is a 57-storey high end rental building, and 217 Adelaide which is a 56-storey condo which is currently in the approvals process but is having some difficulty due to the lack of proper set backs. Those buildings will block your view and create a canyon effect along the alleyway. The Mirvish-Gehry building (90+ stories) will also block your view to the west.

I saw the two units for sale directly above on the 32nd and 35th floor and it was selling at a loss (and at a very good price), as it was an estate and assignment sale by the same seller and they were desperately trying to sell with a 2-1/2 week closing, before the building registers at the end of the month as the widow could not afford to close on the two properties. Those units have amazing sweeping views of Rogers Centre, CN Tower and the Lake in the meantime, with a nice extra deep balcony with a gas line and BBQ. However in those units the kitchen layout across the other wall which eliminates almost all of the solid wall space for furniture, art and TV, making it very awkward to arrange furniture and almost impossible to have decent dining area. Also the "den" is not really a usable den, just an extra large entrance/foyer space between the living and bedroom.

As all of the 01 units are corner units (NW) with floor to ceiling and wall to wall windows, you will be spending a fortune in window coverings which is a must as the bulk of the windows faces west.
Just another thing to think about.

 

[WillTo]

Well I have a unit next to the elevators and the elevator shaft itself does a good job of blocking noise.

Also people don't necessarily use the pool change room because they can just change in their units. Even if they do it would probably just be day time.

Also your bedroom is pretty far from your front door, but when people get drunk and are waiting for the elevator they will get noisy. Unit 02 might be a guest suite and there may be drunk people in there as well.

It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me but units in the price per square foot is pretty high as it is and I'm not sure this building is giving you good value.