Brampton Brampton Centre for Innovation | 48m | 9s | City of Brampton | Diamond Schmitt

It's unclear to me why you're not in favour of a downtown location. I feel that a campus there could inject some much needed street life throughout the day, provide a nice urban environment for the students compared to the usual suburban stuff, and would be very well connected by transit (two way GO service, LRT, Zum). Seems pretty ideal to me. If not then my second choice would be Shoppers World, which would help kickstart the redevelopment of a large property next to the planned LRT.

I have nothing against "a downtown location"....just when I objectively rate the potential locations I get it coming 4th (and like I said if I was inclined to look at the current Sheridan location, DT may slip to 5th).....

..........but your post does point out what I think is wrong with the thinking of many of the people pushing (not saying you are pushing but in Brampton many are) for a DT campus.....their motivation has nothing to do with what is the best location for a campus....what offers Ryerson/Sheridan the best hope/chance of creating an exciting attractive learning enviornment.....it is all about "what is the next wave of public investment we can make to make DT Brampton great again!"......the 1st new city hall didn't do it, the Peel museum didn't do it....the Rose didn't do it....Alderlea didn't do it...the expansion of the City Hall didn't do it....so let's try and get Ryerson/Sheridan to compromise on educational considerations because...yeah, the University will do it. Hopefully Ryerson (who we are told is in control of this decision...not the city) will put eduction and student needs above Brampton's unfulfilled DT aspirations. Like I said, we need to stop trying to make our foot fit the shoe....pick the right shoe in the first place.

As for Steeles/Hurontario....it is a good potential location (would likely be my second choice if I am ranking them) but not actually at Shopper's World.....RioCan does not need help "kickstarting" their redevelopment....they have made it pretty clear they are working on getting ready to approach the city for permission to de-mall, reduce the retail component and build a lot of residential units....why get in the way of that by buying land off of them, reducing your tax base and building the uni there......when there is a very significant building just south of the intersection that will soon be vacant and is already in public hands? Shopper's redevelopment will go ahead (and with a nearby campus maybe even quicker) and you can have the university fill what is going to become a fairly significant hole.

EDIT: forgot to add.....it is not clear to me that during the day is when DT Brampton needs people to animate it's street life....with the consolidation of the City's office staff in the DT there seems to be a fair bit of improvement there already.....it is at night, after the civic workers head home at ~5 that the place becomes deserted.
 
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I don't think anyone is trying to push Downtown Brampton ahead of what might be best for "educational considerations". The idea is that, (while yes, the Downtown could use the jolt), it may at the same time be the best place because of educational considerations in any case: students typically want to study in a place that appeals overall. They want local amenities like coffee shops to pour into, nearby restaurants, cultural venues, places to live nearby that are walking or biking distance, and good transit to the site too. If there are some suitable spaces around downtown that a campus could inhabit, (probably both repurposing older buildings and erecting new ones) then great, it would likely be the best area to be in.

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I don't think anyone is trying to push Downtown Brampton ahead of what might be best for "educational considerations". The idea is that, (while yes, the Downtown could use the jolt), it may at the same time be the best place because of educational considerations in any case: students typically want to study in a place that appeals overall. They want local amenities like coffee shops to pour into, nearby restaurants, cultural venues, places to live nearby that are walking or biking distance, and good transit to the site too. If there are some suitable spaces around downtown that a campus could inhabit, (probably both repurposing older buildings and erecting new ones) then great, it would likely be the best area to be in.

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Not saying people here are pushing it....but in Brampton they are......even one local media guy who did an interview with a councilor last week and said it has to be DT and if it is not DT it is not in the city........ the bolded parts of your criteria are why I would develop it on the east side of the Bramalea City Centre.....starting with re-purposing the Civic Centre and growing up and out from that building as needs/campus grow.....roughly in the middle of this picture

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but there are folks in Brampton suggesting that DT Brampton is the only part of town that offer those locational attributes.
 

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Downtown Brampton has a GO station, Bramalea City Centre does not.

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yes...and that is a plus for DT.....but there are lots of successful campuses all over the province that do not have railed transit (but there is a tendency among some to think that "transit access" only means "next to railed transit")......City Centre area has a very nice bus terminal....one that has shorter connection to the YUS extension than DT...so DT is ahead, slightly, on transit but behind on just about every other aspect. Like I said, nothing against DT....but if I am scoring the potential locations this one is my top scorer followed by Steeles/Hurontario....then the former OPP grounds then DT.

I don't think we will have long to wait to see how Ryerson is scoring it.
 
So, in between bites of my lunch sandwich I had a look at the existing Sheridan campus......fair bit of expansion space there so am liking it....not enough to bump it up past DT but as an adjunct to my 2nd favourite (ie. adaptive re-use of Police HQ) ....connect the two via walking paths (~500m apart) and you have a pretty sweet #2 choice proposal.
 
..........but your post does point out what I think is wrong with the thinking of many of the people pushing (not saying you are pushing but in Brampton many are) for a DT campus.....their motivation has nothing to do with what is the best location for a campus....what offers Ryerson/Sheridan the best hope/chance of creating an exciting attractive learning enviornment.....it is all about "what is the next wave of public investment we can make to make DT Brampton great again!"...the 1st new city hall didn't do it, the Peel museum didn't do it....the Rose didn't do it....Alderlea didn't do it...the expansion of the City Hall didn't do it....so let's try and get Ryerson/Sheridan to compromise on educational considerations because...yeah, the University will do it. Hopefully Ryerson (who we are told is in control of this decision...not the city) will put eduction and student needs above Brampton's unfulfilled DT aspirations. Like I said, we need to stop trying to make our foot fit the shoe....pick the right shoe in the first place.

As Ryerson has done a lot of city building within and outside their downtown campus over the last few years, it's possible that "making Brampton great again" will be a consideration in choosing a location. We'll see. However I think it's unfair to expect that any single public investment in DT is supposed to singlehandedly make it "great again". That vision can only be achieved through multiple different initiatives that will collectively help make it happen. North York Centre didn't become what it is today only because of Mel Lastman Square, it was more than that. And even then, new ideas such as Reimagining Yonge are still necessary.

I should also point out that many new satellite campuses are going to places like Mississauga Centre (Sheridan) and Downtown Markham (York University). Clearly those cities (including the institutions themselves) see the benefit of locating their campuses there. Turns out the shoe did fit the foot, at least in their context.


As for Steeles/Hurontario....it is a good potential location (would likely be my second choice if I am ranking them) but not actually at Shopper's World.....RioCan does not need help "kickstarting" their redevelopment....they have made it pretty clear they are working on getting ready to approach the city for permission to de-mall, reduce the retail component and build a lot of residential units....why get in the way of that by buying land off of them, reducing your tax base and building the uni there......when there is a very significant building just south of the intersection that will soon be vacant and is already in public hands? Shopper's redevelopment will go ahead (and with a nearby campus maybe even quicker) and you can have the university fill what is going to become a fairly significant hole.

But given that most highrise development proposals in Brampton have struggled to do well (even in downtown), that's why I suggested that the campus could help "kickstart" that. However you seem optimistic that the Shoppers redevelopment will do fine either way.
 
As Ryerson has done a lot of city building within and outside their downtown campus over the last few years, it's possible that "making Brampton great again" will be a consideration in choosing a location. We'll see. However I think it's unfair to expect that any single public investment in DT is supposed to singlehandedly make it "great again". That vision can only be achieved through multiple different initiatives that will collectively help make it happen. North York Centre didn't become what it is today only because of Mel Lastman Square, it was more than that. And even then, new ideas such as Reimagining Yonge are still necessary.

No one project can revitalize an area....that is for sure......but the list is long in Brampton and the cumulative effect has been near zero....the continual public investment in one part of town (to the near ignoring of other parts) and the expectation that something will happen is impressive....yet the downtown, the parts owned by the market, looks and feels almost exactly the same as when my family moved to town in 1972.

I should also point out that many new satellite campuses are going to places like Mississauga Centre (Sheridan) and Downtown Markham (York University). Clearly those cities (including the institutions themselves) see the benefit of locating their campuses there. Turns out the shoe did fit the foot, at least in their context.

Last shoe analogy....one size does not fit all.....but there are parts of Brampton that resemble those downtowns more than DT brampton does.




But given that most highrise development proposals in Brampton have struggled to do well (even in downtown), that's why I suggested that the campus could help "kickstart" that. However you seem optimistic that the Shoppers redevelopment will do fine either way.

I have only seen RioCan reference rental buildings....not condos......to measure success of highrise in Brampton you have to split them into two distinct markets......rental buildings do well (and previous condo sites are converting to rental)....condo developments do not.
 
If you build the new campus downtown, you have one more reason for the direct LRT connection.

I figure that doesn't help some peoples' ideas of Making Downtown Brampton Great Again.
One of the reasons I have been given by a couple of well meaning folk for their push for the downtown campus is to justify re-opening the LRT on main discussion......again, not saying that is a bad thing....but it is a backward justification for why the campus should be located there. It should be located where it is best for the school....not what pushes any one political or civic agenda forward.
 
I really fail to see how any location but dt Brampton is preferable. TBH you haven't made a good case for any of the other options you prefer.

I think dt Brampton is the best, my only concern with it is if there's enough space for Ryerson.

And with Sheridan involved, they might want Ryerson colocated with them? I'm not sure. But I prefer dt Brampton regardless and hope that's what's chosen. It just makes sense.
 
I happen to think DT Brampton has the greatest potential both for a quality campus and for city-building.

However, I would be curious if anyone knows the status of the flood-protection plans for DT Brampton?

As I recall the absences of desired measures is/was considered an impediment to development.
 
I really fail to see how any location but dt Brampton is preferable. TBH you haven't made a good case for any of the other options you prefer.

I think dt Brampton is the best, my only concern with it is if there's enough space for Ryerson.

And with Sheridan involved, they might want Ryerson colocated with them? I'm not sure. But I prefer dt Brampton regardless and hope that's what's chosen. It just makes sense.
here is how I scored them.....how did you score them?

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I'd rather see Ryerson invest in adjacent buildings downtown than in a new campus in Brampton.

There is a shortage in study space for students already, not to mention on-campus residents (though work is being done to rectify that), and many if not most programs have no designated space for them on campus, especially within the Faculty of Arts.

Ryerson wants to build a law school by 2019. I would divert attention to that next if I was President Lacheimi.

Cresford is developing 383 Yonge Street, why doesn't Ryerson University offer part of the capital funding in exchange for taking over the 3rd-7th floor or something of the podium? It would connect directly to the Podium building (ala the Student Learning Centre), and in the future provide Ryerson with a direct connection to the PATH system assuming projects across Yonge Street are built.
 

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